Anti vaxxers

jayrebb

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#41
Supplements and vitamins in general including homeopathic need to, at the very least, be subject to random testing.

Too many people making money selling corn starch.

We can have unregulated supplements but at least keep the manufacturers honest. I dont know why Congress doesn't fund the FDA for such a program.
 

Tmac

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#42
The standard childhood vaccinations should simply be mandatory, do they not teach history in school anymore?
No. No they do not. History nor civics.
 

Hachima

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#43
hmm, explain or examples? i'm not following or haven't seen.
Crap like this cold relief from target and also sold at walgreens etc Target : Expect More. Pay Less.

The active ingredient is listed as 'Allium cepa'. Guess what... that's just the scientific name for an onion but they obscure it to make it sound fancy.

Not only do they try to obfuscate the fact that the active ingredient is onion its 3 HC HPUS worth of onion. Most people don't know what that means either but it's .00000001mg of onion as the active ingredient. Homeopaths think since onions make you cry if they add a molecule of an onion to a tablet it will help your runny nose...

Similar idea.. the kid that gets that crap from their parents didn't have a choice and gets to suffer.
 

Lanx

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#44
Crap like this cold relief from target and also sold at walgreens etc Target : Expect More. Pay Less.

The active ingredient is listed as 'Allium cepa'. Guess what... that's just the scientific name for an onion but they obscure it to make it sound fancy.

Not only do they try to obfuscate the fact that the active ingredient is onion its 3 HC HPUS worth of onion. Most people don't know what that means either but it's .00000001mg of onion as the active ingredient. Homeopaths think since onions make you cry if they add a molecule of an onion to a tablet it will help your runny nose...

Similar idea.. the kid that gets that crap from their parents didn't have a choice and gets to suffer.
they put that shit right next to nyquil?
 

fanaskin

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#45
Can you even see it from the paranoid persons point of view though I don't think super hatred "dumb bitch" ect is the answer, literally like 0.0001% of the planet has the ability to actually check what's in a vaccine which your injecting into yours or your kids bodies, that's some primal fear stuff if you can associate it with some malady that nobody wants like having your kid become retarded with autism heh. Then they see people coming down hard on them for asking questions out of genuine concern, some people see that as confirmation of their theory.
 

Asshat Xequecal

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#46
Crap like this cold relief from target and also sold at walgreens etc Target : Expect More. Pay Less.

The active ingredient is listed as 'Allium cepa'. Guess what... that's just the scientific name for an onion but they obscure it to make it sound fancy.

Not only do they try to obfuscate the fact that the active ingredient is onion its 3 HC HPUS worth of onion. Most people don't know what that means either but it's .00000001mg of onion as the active ingredient. Homeopaths think since onions make you cry if they add a molecule of an onion to a tablet it will help your runny nose...

Similar idea.. the kid that gets that crap from their parents didn't have a choice and gets to suffer.
CVS has Oscillococcinum mixed in with all the cold/flu treatments. If you want to be an enormous asshole and watch someone squirm,, bring this to the pharmacist and ask questions about it. As a CVS employee, he can't badmouth CVS products, but as a pharmacist he can't ethically tell you the product actually works.
 

Gavinmad

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#47
CVS has Oscillococcinum mixed in with all the cold/flu treatments. If you want to be an enormous asshole and watch someone squirm,, bring this to the pharmacist and ask questions about it. As a CVS employee, he can't badmouth CVS products, but as a pharmacist he can't ethically tell you the product actually works.
So you're an asshat irl too.

I approve.
 

Hachima

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#48

Lithose

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#49
Can you even see it from the paranoid persons point of view though I don't think super hatred "dumb bitch" ect is the answer, literally like 0.0001% of the planet has the ability to actually check what's in a vaccine which your injecting into yours or your kids bodies, that's some primal fear stuff if you can associate it with some malady that nobody wants like having your kid become retarded with autism heh. Then they see people coming down hard on them for asking questions out of genuine concern, some people see that as confirmation of their theory.
Yeah, and people forget--these are big pharma companies that produce this, there is plenty of shady shit to fuel these conspiracies because of the nature of the FDA, testing, lobbying and as I mentioned before, even the growing dogma in corporate culture/colleges. It creates some oddities, especially given the powerful impetus to quell this kind of paranoia, which, as you said, tends to only reinforce it. But you can dig through tons of lawsuits illustrating Vaccines do have dangers--but the converse of that is those lawsuits tend to be easy wins thanks to some government fund, so they aren't really indicative of fault. And even if they were, the .001% the vaccine has to harm your child is significantly better than what polio will do to him.

But how do you explain that to someone that has never seen these diseases, and what they can do to a community--especially if that person has a basic understanding that they can selfishly exploit herd immunity to forgo the (Paranoid) "risk" all together. Which of course eliminates the immunity eventually--but it's a classic came of self interest in group based dynamics, its always better to go for self interest until the point where it harms the group enough to harm your self interest, but the issue is, due to information exchanges being limited, no one knows when that point is. This is literally why we developed sensations like jealousy and the rage in betrayal--because this kind of selfish vs group thinking was devastating to human tribes if left unchecked.

Its a tougher problem than most people give it credit for. But I think a HUGE portion of it is how we don't teach history anymore, we don't teach what am amazing revolution vaccines were and the horror of the state of nature, and I genuinely believe the rise of Anti-Colonial rhetoric and the shunning of Eurocentric history in favor of noble savage myths is a big part of this problem. Its hard explaining how fucking awful these diseases were without making Europeans seem god damn heroic for eliminating them. (And I'm not saying the impetus is DIRECTLY some ire toward this, but the shift toward history from outside perspectives due to the above ideological positions naturally detracts from those points in history, combined that with the normal time constraints for history in schools--and, yeah, its fucked.)
 
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Lanx

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#50

Lithose

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#51
This is actually one of my favorite things to link people to illustrate how witch hunts propagate for Muh Russia. Think of how fucking dangerous water is, how many people it kills. Think of how scary you can make it sound. Its an industrial solvent that aspirates thousands of children per year, killing them and can be so damaging it can cause third degree burns. <------Every word of that is true, see how I connected the idea of industrial chemical to a medical term most won't know (But if you explain it means choke them to death, it won't really change their image) and then to a niche form of water (Steam), and then the death of children? Instant fear. All because it was using non-plain language ordered specifically to denote the worst potentials of it. Of course, water is just...water.

People are creatures of habit. You can cause real panic in adults by simply closing the route they normally take home. (Well you could before GPS) Our base nature is fear, we have to learn to be not afraid and we do that through knowing something by learning its normal patterns. Whenever you alter those patterns, even if its just showing someone something at a different angle--it will cause instant fear usually (This is one reason its often so hard to be natural with people you like--you understand on some deep level, consistency is the absolute bedrock of social cohesion. The MOMENT someone acts odd, people want to segregate themselves from them. This is the essence of the Jokers speech in Dark Knight, "part of the plan" is just a stand in for the heuristic shortcuts of culture that quickly let us judge people to see if they are adhering to cultural patterns that keep us safe. This is a crux we use to live in a bigger society, because we can't individually judge everyone--our brains can only handle knowing a few hundred people. This is also why introducing people with different cultures can cause so much tension--because you are far less sure how they will react, and this all happens subconsciously).

Anyway, rambling, really like that clip and its a perfect example of how people get taken in by hysteria and fear, especially in our world now where the amount of knowledge makes us more and more reliant on specialists (There is literally too much knowledge and individually its making each of us more and more ignorant. This leaves us EXTREMELY open to being exploited by bad actors who don't even have to lie to scare us--merely shift how we see something.)
 

Sterling

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#52
Can you even see it from the paranoid persons point of view though I don't think super hatred "dumb bitch" ect is the answer, literally like 0.0001% of the planet has the ability to actually check what's in a vaccine which your injecting into yours or your kids bodies, that's some primal fear stuff if you can associate it with some malady that nobody wants like having your kid become retarded with autism heh. Then they see people coming down hard on them for asking questions out of genuine concern, some people see that as confirmation of their theory.
That's the thing. I can totally get on board with people having a problem with a SPECIFIC vaccine but people that blanket nope out of vaccination as a concept at this point don't really have an excuse anymore.
 

AngryGerbil

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#53
I know that the flu vaccine is not perfect. I know that the people who create it can only 'guess' at what strains will likely propagate through the population for the next coming year, and that their guess might be wrong.

I also know that the immune system is incredibly complex. Like, it really is.

Can someone explain to me how my getting a flu vaccine 'makes my immune system weaker'? I'm lost at that part.

If I immunize myself with the flu vaccine and cause my immune system to build some B Cells and T Cells designed to combat against the protein shells of 3 strands of influenza, how has this 'weakened' my immune system? I'm asking honestly.

I've watched/attended dozens of lectures on immunology and virology and I do not understand where this 'weakened' concept comes from. All we are doing with the flu vaccine is showing our immune system the shapes of certain sets of proteins so that our B's and T's can recognize that shape in the future and kill it.

Zizzywizzy? Any insight? I know you're not a virologist but it doesn't make sense to me that I am 'weakened' because I have learned to fight off three strains of the flu. Sure, I might get attacked by a 4th or 5th strain but that only means that I failed to immunize against them, not that I 'made myself weak' with the first 3.
 

Tholan

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#54
I know that the flu vaccine is not perfect. I know that the people who create it can only 'guess' at what strains will likely propagate through the population for the next coming year, and that their guess might be wrong.

I also know that the immune system is incredibly complex. Like, it really is.

Can someone explain to me how my getting a flu vaccine 'makes my immune system weaker'? I'm lost at that part.

If I immunize myself with the flu vaccine and cause my immune system to build some B Cells and T Cells designed to combat against the protein shells of 3 strands of influenza, how has this 'weakened' my immune system? I'm asking honestly.

I've watched/attended dozens of lectures on immunology and virology and I do not understand where this 'weakened' concept comes from. All we are doing with the flu vaccine is showing our immune system the shapes of certain sets of proteins so that our B's and T's can recognize that shape in the future and kill it.

Zizzywizzy? Any insight? I know you're not a virologist but it doesn't make sense to me that I am 'weakened' because I have learned to fight off three strains of the flu. Sure, I might get attacked by a 4th or 5th strain but that only means that I failed to immunize against them, not that I 'made myself weak' with the first 3.
Your body reacts to the flu vaccine as it would to the real shit. Cough, fever, sweating, etc. for a few days. This takes ressources, and it does weaken your body - not in a dramatic way of course, and very temporarily, except if you are already weak before (i.e. if you are 65+ yo). After that period you're good to go, but you're still vulnerable to other strains.

Just if someone is interested on this, currently in Switzerland two strains are rising super fast since Christmas, the H3N2 (12%) and the H1N1 (32%). In surrounding countries, the H1N1 is also predominant, so they will vaccine against this. Last year, kids under age 4 also got H1N1, but adults were subject to Yamagata. When I was working for a pharma company, flu shots were mandatory.
 

jayrebb

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#55
This takes ressources, and it does weaken your body - not in a dramatic way of course, and very temporarily, except if you are already weak before (i.e. if you are 65+ yo). After that period you're good to go, but you're still vulnerable to other strains.
Citation needed.
 

Lanx

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#58



Honestly, the last time i got a shot was when i was 18, i have no idea for what, and it was for college, i think? (do you need full immunizations to enter college?)

Jesus christ, babies are getting 6 shots at 2months?
 

Hosix

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#59
It’s not 6 shots. They combo them to a 1 or 2 shots total.

Off topic....but....as a parent watching your baby get a shot is brutal.
 

jayrebb

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#60
1548488766477.png


Stern cringe.

And this one has been rejected by France outright AFAIK. It won't be added to the schedule there.

Its hit extreme resistance there and things don't really seem to be looking up for it.

1548489078203.png
 
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