Ebola Outbreak

Quineloe

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They are obviously in the research business in order to make money. A significant side effect of their business model is the betterment of humanity. The fact they are there to make money doesn't invalidate the fact they do produce better medicine. Every business out there want to make money and the majority of them sure as hell don't improve mankind like pharmaceuticals do, yet the later are evil somehow?
Their main purpose is profit. They may have started out differently, but that was a long time ago. Now they're corporations, owned by shareholders, who put businessmen instead of scientists on top. I'm not saying they're evil companies that make profit on the back of everyone else like Monsanto, they're just putting profit first and medicine second. That's why, as the loudmouth pointed out, the less profitable research is done by small organizations and why we fell behind on antibiotics in the first place.

But hey, that's based on the completely wrong presumption that there's no MRSA or any other resistant bacteria strains. They're all made up, like global warming and green aliens.
 

Lejina

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Pretty sure we have problems with antibiotic resistant bacteria because of poor practices when it comes to prescribing and using them. Research done on new antibiotics has nothing to do with how the existing antibiotics have been mismanaged.

You should blame doctors prescribing the wrong medicine and patients nagging for antibiotics for the flu instead of Pfizer for not developing new medicines fast enough to make up for the aforementioned morons.

We're talking of wide range antibiotics, not some medication for some obscure Congolese amoeba. There's serious money to make there. You can rest assured pharmaceutic companies do research the shit out of that kind of antibiotics.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Their main purpose is profit. They may have started out differently, but that was a long time ago. Now they're corporations, owned by shareholders, who put businessmen instead of scientists on top. I'm not saying they're evil companies that make profit on the back of everyone else like Monsanto, they're just putting profit first and medicine second. That's why, as the loudmouth pointed out, the less profitable research is done by small organizations and why we fell behind on antibiotics in the first place.

But hey, that's based on the completely wrong presumption that there's no MRSA or any other resistant bacteria strains. They're all made up, like global warming and green aliens.
Except they do, do that research, as I said. You drew a false conclusion that because a pharmaceutical company made 6 times as much off of a cancer drug compared to antibiotics (which they don't have exclusive intellectual property of anymore) they must not be doing any research into other methods of treating microbial infection.

That extremely profitable cancer drug has and will fund many diverse research endeavors, many of which you will never hear of because they won't even make it to testing in mice models, let alone clinical trials.

Edit - Lejina is absolutely correct as to why multi-drug resistant strains are emerging. Placing blame on pharmaceutical companies for not having a new method of treating these bacterial infections just shows how ignorant you are to the complexity of such research, and how much we stil have to learn about these strains.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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As for saying Monsanto is an evil company, while their methods of enforcing use of their property are without a doubt shitty, they do a ton of research into some pretty amazing things such as edible vaccines or genetically modified to combat vitamin deficiencies. You do have to understand how importamt from an ecological and business view how strict use of their products must be enforced though.

I would place more blame on the patent and legal systems. They, like everyone else are just playing by those rules.

Edit - also dont say genetically modified plants are unsafe because they aren't at all.
 

Quineloe

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Pretty sure we have problems with antibiotic resistant bacteria because of poor practices when it comes to prescribing and using them. Research done on new antibiotics has nothing to do with how the existing antibiotics have been mismanaged.

You should blame doctors prescribing the wrong medicine and patients nagging for antibiotics for the flu instead of Pfizer for not developing new medicines fast enough to make up for the aforementioned morons.

We're talking of wide range antibiotics, not some medication for some obscure Congolese amoeba. There's serious money to make there. You can rest assured pharmaceutic companies do research the shit out of that kind of antibiotics.
Everyone is to blame:
The patient for not taking the antibiotics for the full period, which kills the weak bacteria in a few days, sympthoms disappear but the resistant bacteria are still alive. Patient stops taking the Antibiotics too early and the resistant bacteria survive, which greatly accelerates the progress.

The doctors for describing broadspectrum antibiotics for everything instead of testing for the specific strain he needs to treat. Therefore all kinds of bacteria get exposed to the antibiotics and if the patient repeats the mistake from example one, all kinds of bacteria have their resistance process accelerated

health insurance companies for not paying for the test required to identify the bacteria. The #1 reason doctors use broad spectrum instead of testing and then prescribing the ideal antibiotics.

Farmers for using antibiotics on their animals in huge quantities.

So in a way everyone is at fault. For certain is one thing, we can no longer afford being sloppy here.
 

iannis

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Monsanto is sort of evil though. The company is too big and too important to be otherwise.

The generation for staph outpaces both our own and the pace of our research. That really is part of it. There's a lot else that goes into it which has been mentioned, and which is more important, but even if you perfectly control and minimize all those other variables MRSA is stillgoing to happen. We are creating an ecosystem for it to inhabit.

My main point is that -- even if it was no one's fault it's just part of the nature of the problem that is utterly unavoidable. The only way to avoid MRSA is to not use antibiotics to begin with, and that idea is way more evil than anything Big Pharma is trying to dream up.
 

Quineloe

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UK law dictates hospitals have to publish their MSRA cases. Ten years after the law went in effect, the number of cases dropped from 7,700 in the last year before the law to 862 in 2013. 2007 there were 4,451 cases.

MRSA doesn't just happen. We let it happen.
 

iannis

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Seems like you just said that it happened 862 times in the UK to me, chief.

You will hit a point where it is no one's fault and simply a function of bacteria being assholes. We should try to reach that point, I agree with you. That point is attainable.

But you need to realize that it can indeed just happen.
 

Pasteton

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one of the major causes of hospital morbidity now is a bug called c.diff - this is specifically a bug that goes nuts when antibiotics wipe out the competing bacteria. Treating c.diff is very challenging, generally requiring specific, expensive IV antibiotics which are sometimes not effective in some strains. There is therapy called fecal transplant where someone else's feces is literally infused into the patient's colon like a reverse enema- this has shown a lot of promise in treating c. diff, because it reintroduces all those bugs the antibiotics took out.

Pharm companies would be jumping across rooftops if they came up with some miracle drug to treat these resistant bugs. These are incredibly widespread health problems and there would be a HUGE financial incentive for them to research the hell out of this. The fact we arent seeing any speedy miracle solution here is because classes of antiobiotics have specific mechanisms they work thru, and when a bacteria is no longer susceptible to that mechanism, we are now talking about entire classes of drugs that no longer work. It's not just a simple matter of 'oh its now resistant to methicillin, lets just use or develop X instead.' In a sense it is kind of like treating HIV, which itself was a major problem due to the 'moving target' nature of the virus and its many strains. And lets not forget the huge amount of money and research that went into that, and even to this day there's no 100% cure (though it can be effectively kept in remission for life)
 

Northerner

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There is therapy called fecal transplant where someone else's feces is literally infused into the patient's colon like a reverse enema- this has shown a lot of promise in treating c. diff, because it reintroduces all those bugs the antibiotics took out.
I love when people talk about GI flora (re)introduction as if it were weird. OMG! THEY ARE PUTTING OTHER SHIT INTO YOUR SHIT!!1! It's a completely valid medical treatment but for some reason it just freaks everyone out.

Big Pharma is another matter entirely of course. I am amused at how blatant they are these days in bribing/influencing doctors even here in Canada though but hell, I'll take their money when they are entertaining. It *is* funny though seeing reps wine and dine the doctors just so they can bullshit them about their products. They all seem to pretend like they are saving lives but the Q&A is softballs across the board and the docs don't seem to mind a $300/person meal as compensation for their time and that's only what they get for showing up. The hotels, general perks and actual financial stuff is all on top of that.
 

Quineloe

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I honestly thought he was trolling when I got to that part. It just reminded me too much of Ricky Gervais trolling Louis CK.
 

ZyyzYzzy

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Pretty sure there a essentially"poop pills" a person can be given now instead of a invassive transplant.

Bacteriophages as a targeted treatment for resistant strains of bacteria look hopeful.
 

Hoss

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Pretty sure there a essentially"poop pills" a person can be given now instead of a invassive transplant.
You mean the acidophilus stuff? Or are you thinking of something else?
 

iannis

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Acidophilus has been around since like the 60's.

"Poop transplant" makes everyone giggle. No one is above giggling at the idea of a poop transplant.

So there is advantage in probiotics, prebiotics, and narrowly targeted antibiotics. It's not one big old brown poop pill, as such, but a regimen. Still, they're essentially poop pills!
 

Lenardo

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possible case in Boston atm...first test results tomorrow

at Mass General.

they are not saying if the person walked in or came by ambulance.

reports are they immediately activated their protocol and put in isolation, they have ~100 people trained for this, other hospitals have offered to assist
 

Lenardo

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update on the previous post

cnn citing a us Gov source is saying it's Malaria not ebola.

Mass General Hospital has not confirmed the report.

edit: confirmed malaria...
 

Tuco

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CNN's reaction to possible case of Ebola:


CNN's reaction to that it was just malaria:
 

Aaron

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So... weren't we all supposed to be infected by Ebola now? Wasn't that what they were predicting a few months back? Exponential increase and shit like that? Piff! Worst. Plague. Ever.