European Politics Thread

Aaron

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I wonder if there's an alt-hist book out there that uses a "Germany invades East in 1939 first, then turn to West Europe in '42" scenario. It's kinda hard, because moving against Poland or Czechoslovakia (as they did) would start the western war anyway... But if you can manage the Munich accords better... imagine that Germany has full freedom to invade USSR without looking over its shoulder... then can turn against the rest of Europe after they secure the russian resources.
Hitler adored the British Empire. It was his wet dream to team up with them to fight the Ruskies. But that would never have happened as it has been Britain's continental policy to always ally with the "lesser" of the continental powers against the stronger. Hence the UK being allied with Prussia against Napoleonic France at the time, then switching sides with the rise of Germany in the 1860s.

However, a slightly more likely scenario would have seen the French ditching Britain for an overture to Germany. There were very complex sentiments towards Germany in France prior to WWII, as well as many of the French elites who detested the UK. While I wouldn't say there ever was a good chance at this happening, it did reach the level of open discussion a few times in French papers and think tanks of the time.
 

Skanda

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Churchill wanted to Drop A=bmbs on Moscow Iin 46 before they developed the tecn o relaw.. Not to mention go back on ton international agreements and possible starting WWWII with <Moscox nd nerl ......................................

He was the biggest Anti Communist perhaps.
Now can you repost that in English please?
 

Ukerric

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I think a solar flare or something caused an electromagnetic perturbation that ate half of the bits in the quoted sentence.

That, or scotch whiskey.
 

Whidon

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Now can you repost that in English please?
Churchill distrusted Stalin about as much as HIter.

IN 46 he asked Truman to Nuke Mowcow before they got he technology to respond. in kind

Indeed, if th US did not fuck the UK over with the Nuclear sharing agreement, and Churchill wonin 45 it's very possible WW3 would have started in the midlate 50s.

Sorry my keyboard suffered some water dmg. Yesterday night I need to buy a new one...
 

AngryGerbil

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I wonder if there's an alt-hist book out there that uses a "Germany invades East in 1939 first, then turn to West Europe in '42" scenario. It's kinda hard, because moving against Poland or Czechoslovakia (as they did) would start the western war anyway... But if you can manage the Munich accords better... imagine that Germany has full freedom to invade USSR without looking over its shoulder... then can turn against the rest of Europe after they secure the russian resources.
I think this is maybe not possible.

Even if you could isolate Germany and Russia into a perfectly bipolar war with no outside influence, which is not a possibility in the universe that we currently inhabit, then I think it is always a stalemate at best and an absolute defeat for Germany at worst.

So long as Russia has it's expanded-eastward and southward empire, which it has had for a long time now, then Germany has no real chance in my opinion and never has. The Russian plan for the West has not yet failed them to date. Napoleon and Wilhelm and Hitler have all fallen prey to the exact same tactic.

The Western powers such as England and France and America can't just be hand-waved away in any real scenario and even in a pretend scenario I think the best Germany could ever hope for is to hold the Polish-German corridor. I don't think it's possible for Germany to conquer Russia but it may also not be possible for Russia to conquer Germany.

My 2cp.
 

Ukerric

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Sorry my keyboard suffered some water dmg. Yesterday night I need to buy a new one...
Had once a keyboard totaled by a Guinness spill. Even after washing and drying repeatedly, some keys would still lock in place and need smashing to unlock (all the while the repeat would spam the key)... But water spill shouldn't do permanent damage to your keyboard.
 

Locnar

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I think this is maybe not possible.

Even if you could isolate Germany and Russia into a perfectly bipolar war with no outside influence, which is not a possibility in the universe that we currently inhabit, then I think it is always a stalemate at best and an absolute defeat for Germany at worst.

So long as Russia has it's expanded-eastward and southward empire, which it has had for a long time now, then Germany has no real chance in my opinion and never has. The Russian plan for the West has not yet failed them to date. Napoleon and Wilhelm and Hitler have all fallen prey to the exact same tactic.

The Western powers such as England and France and America can't just be hand-waved away in any real scenario and even in a pretend scenario I think the best Germany could ever hope for is to hold the Polish-German corridor. I don't think it's possible for Germany to conquer Russia but it may also not be possible for Russia to conquer Germany.

My 2cp.

Germany initially tried to get Poland on board with taking USSR down. There were plenty of other eastern states that would of and did join this coalition. I think if Poland would of been more agreeable to this (of course that would of been back-stabbed later on) there is a real possibility of France/UK letting Germany overthrow Communist Russia.

And Wilhelm in WW1 did defeat Russia with the help of revolution. I think Hitler could of repeated that in reverse, from communist back to something similar to what we see today, with the western areas (belo russia, Ukraine, etc) dominated and dependent on Germany.

Edit: Maybe even war with Poland would not of been necessary later on. Poland could of been pushed further east into their old commonwealth territories while Germany took western Poland for themselves. This exact thing happened with Romania in the war, Hitler forced Romania to give up western Romania and then gave them Ukraine up to Odessa as compensation. Poland was forced into accepting the reverse of this after the war after all. Gave up eastern Poland forever to the USSR and given eastern Germany pieces as compensation.

Nothing Magical about Russia. They have been beaten and lost territories multiple times in their history, even modern history.
 

AngryGerbil

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Germany initially tried to get Poland on board with taking USSR down. There were plenty of other eastern states that would of and did join this coalition. I think if Poland would of been more agreeable to this (of course that would of been back-stabbed later on) there is a real possibility of France/UK letting Germany overthrow Communist Russia.

And Wilhelm in WW1 did defeat Russia with the help of revolution. I think Hitler could of repeated that in reverse, from communist back to something similar to what we see today, with the western areas (belo russia, Ukraine, etc) dominated and dependent on Germany.

Edit: Maybe even war with Poland would not of been necessary later on. Poland could of been pushed further east into their old commonwealth territories while Germany took western Poland for themselves. This exact thing happened with Romania in the war, Hitler forced Romania to give up western Romania and then gave them Ukraine up to Odessa as compensation. Poland was forced into accepting the reverse of this after the war after all. Gave up eastern Poland forever to the USSR and given eastern Germany pieces as compensation.

Nothing Magical about Russia. They have been beaten and lost territories multiple times in their history, even modern history.
I'm not trying to make Russia into magic. I'm saying that the Rus and the Deutsch have never settled things in a millennia. Russia has expanded south and east but they can't crack the nut of the Central European plains or the Carpathians with military force still to this day. It's true that they gained territory after stuff was signed after WW2, but those are more political sorts of conquests. I can storm your house and kill you and take it by force, or I can have you sign it over to me. Same, but different.

USSR is not what I mean when I speak of Russia. USSR is a virus that inhabited the Russian speaking peoples, and lingers still. But the Russian ethos predates the USSR itself. If anything, Russia won in WW2 despite USSR, not because of it. It had to cannibalize itself just to push back against Germany, who also had a second front to attend to.

Now the idea of a united Europe, plus North America, all pushing into Russia both politically and militarily united in an act of pure aggression? In a Napoleon-style push, only with Carrier Groups and nukes this time? In such a scenario I'd say China would have a seriously major word-history-changing decision to make. Iran would go for Russia but India would go for the West as would most of South America and Japan. China would have to decide who it's true friend really is in the world. It's fun to think about even if I have rambled a bit here.

Also, bro, it's 'could have' and 'would have', not 'could of' and 'would of'. You're killing me and my inner Draegan.
 

Sentagur

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Press F for guido soyboys

Well Italians already have experience with Moorish invasions. The question is are we going to have il duce 2.0 popping up any time soon?
 

Razzes

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Vienna police charge 3 men for waving Israeli flag at rally

Waving Israeli flag vs shouting ‘Death to Israel.’ Which one belong in jail do you think? The one waving the flag obviously! Insanity.

Also lol at JPost comments, never fail to deliver:

"We all may not live to see it, but the Europeans will so deserve it when they are subjugated by Islam."

"Amen. My murdered family in the Shoa may yet get their nekama on the descendants of their murderers..."

"Who cares about Islam, anti-semetic European garbage are the #1 enemy of the Jews, I am still hoping for a revenge on these pieces of garbage"
 

monnoh

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The actual charge reads that the prison sentence is an ‘Ersatzfreiheitsstrafe’, which you only have to do when you fail to pay. Obviously a 100 euro fine for being a jackass is enough to wish subjugation and harm upon a people. Fuck those ignorant ingrates.
 

Mario Speedwagon

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Vienna police charge 3 men for waving Israeli flag at rally

Waving Israeli flag vs shouting ‘Death to Israel.’ Which one belong in jail do you think? The one waving the flag obviously! Insanity.

Also lol at JPost comments, never fail to deliver:

"We all may not live to see it, but the Europeans will so deserve it when they are subjugated by Islam."

"Amen. My murdered family in the Shoa may yet get their nekama on the descendants of their murderers..."

"Who cares about Islam, anti-semetic European garbage are the #1 enemy of the Jews, I am still hoping for a revenge on these pieces of garbage"
Jews hate Europe.

 

Razzes

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You forgot the part where they still hold you responsible for the Holocaust. And one of these was the top liked comment btw.

Reading JPost comments section has to be fastest way to radicalize someone from "Holocaust is the tragedy of the 20th century" to "Holocaust should have happened".
 

Chanur

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The actual charge reads that the prison sentence is an ‘Ersatzfreiheitsstrafe’, which you only have to do when you fail to pay. Obviously a 100 euro fine for being a jackass is enough to wish subjugation and harm upon a people. Fuck those ignorant ingrates.
Why is waiving a flag a finable/arrestable offense?
 

monnoh

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Why is waiving a flag a finable/arrestable offense?
Waving a flag isn’t. Waving a flag of the country in the face of people who were holding an approved protest against that countries actions constitutes disturbance of the peace, which is a finable (not an arrestable, see above) offense. To suggest that they were fined for ‘waving a flag’ is a bit disingenious.
 

Chanur

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Waving a flag isn’t. Waving a flag of the country in the face of people who were holding an approved protest against constitutes disturbance of the peace, which is a finable (not an arrestable, see above) offense. To suggest that they were fined for ‘waving a flag’ is a bit disingenious.
That is what it was. That's some weak sauce anti free speech garbage.
 

monnoh

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That is what it was. That's some weak sauce anti free speech garbage.
They can exercise their right to free speech all they want, but they have to do it without breaking other laws of their host country. They can wave their flag in their house, in their garden, in an approved protest of their own or however the fuck those retards want, just not in a way that breaks other laws.
 

Razzes

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What is fucked up about this news is that they are probably judging the flag waving as provocative because of the chimp out reaction of a mob of Arabs. We need to tone down our empathy toward these people or it's going to be our end. They think because Arabs scream loudly and violently they are desperate and thus deserve compassion, but that's just because they imagine Arabs are like them and don't realize chimping out is not a big deal for them.
 

monnoh

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What is fucked up about this news is that they are probably judging the flag waving as provocative because of the chimp out reaction of a mob of Arabs. We need to tone down our empathy toward these people or it's going to be our end. They think because Arabs scream loudly and violently they are desperate and thus deserve compassion, but that's just because they imagine Arabs are like them and don't realize chimping out is not a big deal for them.
Fines get handed out to counter-protests pretty often because most of the time they are unsanctioned and only intended to provoke or fight the original protest. This one just made the news because of the people involved. What they should’ve also done is bring the hammer down on those degenerates in the original protest when they fail to not attack people.