Hodj's Saltitarium

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hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,511
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65d 2h 31m
It is my fault though I put some crazy shit in my lungs sometimes. Probably die of lung cancer.

Why should I be afraid of dying? Anytime will do, I don't mind.

We all gotta go sometime
 

Erronius

Elder shitposter of R'lyeh
<Gold Donor>
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This wasn't a change to policy because it benefited the US. It was a change in policy because it benefitted Trump.

I don't know how to explain to people that the President represents the nation, that the nation isn't an extension of the President, you know? This was consistent bipartisan foreign policy agreed upon in Congress and the Senate, as well as between both parties, going back to the collapse of the USSR. Ukraine is a critical ally and a bulwark against Russian expansionism.

I dunno how to help people who don't see the vital nature of that to see it, but that's how I see it.
Making dinner so eh.

If I had to choose between a pissing contest with Russia in Ukraine, versus the porridge of diarrhea we ended up with in Syria, I'd choose the former with no hesitation. The Crimea really bothers me much more than Syria does. We can't fix Syria, but we could have helped Ukraine. Instead it looks like prior administrations simply balked.

The other thing about Trump and Syria is...and maybe it's just me...is that Trump says a lot of shit because he's trying to play to a crowd, or he's throwing something out there because one particular notion or another stuck in his noggin (maybe he just got done watching Fox & Friends) and he's then going to see how well received it will be. If it's not well received, sooner or later there's a very good chance he'll relent and backtrack.

So after all the shit Trump got about pulling troops out, there were stories about a reversal of sorts with troops staying, and then people whined and cried about that, too. The way I see it, most of the opposition to Trump wanting to pull troops out, was solely because it was Trump who was saying it.

I disagreed with him giving Turkey the green light, and then backtracking afterwards...but honestly...unless we're going to stay there indefinitely (we wont) at some point we wont be there to shield the Kurds and their desire for a free Kurdistan, and Turkey would probably still decide to go after them anyways. Not to mention, Erdogan didn't ask for permission. It sounds more and more like he simply told Trump what he was about to do. A sort of 'deconfliction' if you will.

I don't know how to explain to people, as well, that what we did in Syria was abandon a close, long time, critical ally in the region, who lost thousands of their citizens fighting the ISIS expansion in the region, to genocide by a former ally whose gone the way of radical Islam and fallen back into the sphere of the nation states we generally oppose. But what he did to the Kurds was a travesty.

And was against the desires of our military leaders.
So, we were allied with the Kurds for about a decade+. I'm pretty pro-Kurd myself. I still remember being in northern Iraq when terrorists were driving concrete trucks full of explosives into Kurdish territory and just murking them on principle. The Middle East is a really fucked up place, and of all the different factions present, the Kurds at least seemed to be reasonable.

Thing is...we all know what the Kurds want. Have we EVER had a policy to help our allies in that regard?

Nope. All we've ever done is take advantage of them when the situation arose.

See, if we had some sort of policy concerning Kurdish independence, I'd probably feel differently. I feel we probably should at least throw such a policy on the table when dealing with Iran/Iraq/Syria/Turkey with the caveat that should anyone seek to destroy the Kurds, we'd then support Independence.

Unfortunately, we don't have anything resembling that. There's no endgame with the Kurds, you know? What would we be working towards by staying there? Especially when Erdogan called Trump's bluff and declared...not asked...that he was going to roll into Syria, and that Trump could move our assets out, or else.

All we've really done is take advantage of the Kurds to fight ISIS, but we've never felt compelled to seek a paradigm shift in their favor. As such, the Kurds probably need to change tack and try working with the regional nations a bit more. Which they weren't doing as long as we were there.

 
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hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,511
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65d 2h 31m
Making dinner so eh.

If I had to choose between a pissing contest with Russia in Ukraine, versus the porridge of diarrhea we ended up with in Syria, I'd choose the former with no hesitation. The Crimea really bothers me much more than Syria does. We can't fix Syria, but we could have helped Ukraine. Instead it looks like prior administrations simply balked.

The other thing about Trump and Syria is...and maybe it's just me...is that Trump says a lot of shit because he's trying to play to a crowd, or he's throwing something out there because one particular notion or another stuck in his noggin (maybe he just got done watching Fox & Friends) and he's then going to see how well received it will be. If it's not well received, sooner or later there's a very good chance he'll relent and backtrack.

So after all the shit Trump got about pulling troops out, there were stories about a reversal of sorts with troops staying, and then people whined and cried about that, too. The way I see it, most of the opposition to Trump wanting to pull troops out, was solely because it was Trump who was saying it.

I disagreed with him giving Turkey the green light, and then backtracking afterwards...but honestly...unless we're going to stay there indefinitely (we wont) at some point we wont be there to shield the Kurds and their desire for a free Kurdistan, and Turkey would probably still decide to go after them anyways. Not to mention, Erdogan didn't ask for permission. It sounds more and more like he simply told Trump what he was about to do. A sort of 'deconfliction' if you will.



So, we were allied with the Kurds for about a decade+. I'm pretty pro-Kurd myself. I still remember being in northern Iraq when terrorists were driving concrete trucks full of explosives into Kurdish territory and just murking them on principle. The Middle East is a really fucked up place, and of all the different factions present, the Kurds at least seemed to be reasonable.

Thing is...we all know what the Kurds want. Have we EVER had a policy to help our allies in that regard?

Nope. All we've ever done is take advantage of them when the situation arose.

See, if we had some sort of policy concerning Kurdish independence, I'd probably feel differently. I feel we probably should at least throw such a policy on the table when dealing with Iran/Iraq/Syria/Turkey with the caveat that should anyone seek to destroy the Kurds, we'd then support Independence.

Unfortunately, we don't have anything resembling that. There's no endgame with the Kurds, you know? What would we be working towards by staying there? Especially when Erdogan called Trump's bluff and declared...not asked...that he was going to roll into Syria, and that Trump could move our assets out, or else.

All we've really done is take advantage of the Kurds to fight ISIS, but we've never felt compelled to seek a paradigm shift in their favor. As such, the Kurds probably need to change tack and try working with the regional nations a bit more. Which they weren't doing as long as we were there.
k
 

Erronius

Elder shitposter of R'lyeh
<Gold Donor>
10,547
16,720
49d 14h 39m
hodj hodj if you aren't going to play into the quest for Asshat 2020, you should just do your own yearly election. Like "Saltiest Motherfucker 2020" or "Top Serverwide Burst Salty Bitch DPS 2020".

Maybe have khorum khorum involved in his capacity as "High Priest of Saltsgiving"

We also need to check on Lightning Lord Rule Lightning Lord Rule to see how the Salt Quotient is coming along
 

lurkingdirk

<Medals Crew>
16,121
10,722
49d 6h 12m
hodj hodj if you aren't going to play into the quest for Asshat 2020, you should just do your own yearly election. Like "Saltiest Motherfucker 2020" or "Top Serverwide Burst Salty Bitch DPS 2020".

Maybe have khorum khorum involved in his capacity as "High Priest of Saltsgiving"

We also need to check on Lightning Lord Rule Lightning Lord Rule to see how the Salt Quotient is coming along
 

Titan_Atlas

Tranny Chaser
<Prior Amod>
7,263
18,333
29d 5h 16m
Making dinner so eh.

If I had to choose between a pissing contest with Russia in Ukraine, versus the porridge of diarrhea we ended up with in Syria, I'd choose the former with no hesitation. The Crimea really bothers me much more than Syria does. We can't fix Syria, but we could have helped Ukraine. Instead it looks like prior administrations simply balked.

The other thing about Trump and Syria is...and maybe it's just me...is that Trump says a lot of shit because he's trying to play to a crowd, or he's throwing something out there because one particular notion or another stuck in his noggin (maybe he just got done watching Fox & Friends) and he's then going to see how well received it will be. If it's not well received, sooner or later there's a very good chance he'll relent and backtrack.

So after all the shit Trump got about pulling troops out, there were stories about a reversal of sorts with troops staying, and then people whined and cried about that, too. The way I see it, most of the opposition to Trump wanting to pull troops out, was solely because it was Trump who was saying it.

I disagreed with him giving Turkey the green light, and then backtracking afterwards...but honestly...unless we're going to stay there indefinitely (we wont) at some point we wont be there to shield the Kurds and their desire for a free Kurdistan, and Turkey would probably still decide to go after them anyways. Not to mention, Erdogan didn't ask for permission. It sounds more and more like he simply told Trump what he was about to do. A sort of 'deconfliction' if you will.



So, we were allied with the Kurds for about a decade+. I'm pretty pro-Kurd myself. I still remember being in northern Iraq when terrorists were driving concrete trucks full of explosives into Kurdish territory and just murking them on principle. The Middle East is a really fucked up place, and of all the different factions present, the Kurds at least seemed to be reasonable.

Thing is...we all know what the Kurds want. Have we EVER had a policy to help our allies in that regard?

Nope. All we've ever done is take advantage of them when the situation arose.

See, if we had some sort of policy concerning Kurdish independence, I'd probably feel differently. I feel we probably should at least throw such a policy on the table when dealing with Iran/Iraq/Syria/Turkey with the caveat that should anyone seek to destroy the Kurds, we'd then support Independence.

Unfortunately, we don't have anything resembling that. There's no endgame with the Kurds, you know? What would we be working towards by staying there? Especially when Erdogan called Trump's bluff and declared...not asked...that he was going to roll into Syria, and that Trump could move our assets out, or else.

All we've really done is take advantage of the Kurds to fight ISIS, but we've never felt compelled to seek a paradigm shift in their favor. As such, the Kurds probably need to change tack and try working with the regional nations a bit more. Which they weren't doing as long as we were there.
Kurds are not our allies. Turkey is with Nato. We did an ugly thing stringing the Kurds along the way we did. That was MIT bullshit. But the truth is we have a dury to support the Turks based on Nato obligations. My opinion, is we should leave the middle east and almost all other countries and worry about our own failing nation. Including Israel, let them fight or burn.
 

Erronius

Elder shitposter of R'lyeh
<Gold Donor>
10,547
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49d 14h 39m
Kurds are not our allies.
Well, maybe they should be.

Turkey is with Nato.
Well, maybe they shouldn't be.

We did an ugly thing stringing the Kurds along the way we did. That was MIT bullshit.
I agree.

But the truth is we have a dury to support the Turks based on Nato obligations.
See my second comment.

My opinion, is we should leave the middle east and almost all other countries and worry about our own failing nation. Including Israel, let them fight or burn.
Mostly agree.

Israel can generally take care of themselves. And they'll fight; there's no doubt about that. They haven't been shy about striking Iranian assets in Iraq and elsewhere.

Right now I'm waiting to see what happens with Iran. I doubt the current protests will have legs, but you never know. We should probably increase sanctions, LOL.
 
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hodj

Vox Populi Jihadi
<Silver Donator>
31,511
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65d 2h 31m
Try not to die. Or don't, I'm not your boss.
Think its a lung infection just the pain was goddamn awful.

Pretty sure ill survive this one.

Or not. Whatever. Maybe its cancer. One can only hope for an early reprieve from the tyranny of existence