I want to negotiate a pay rise

Ossoi

Ossoi

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I was sure there was already a thread on how to go about asking for and successfully negotiating a pay rise but I couldn't find anything.

I work in sales and have been with the company for 3.5 years, I am the second longest serving employee and for the last two years I have been the top billing consultant. Last year I billed 50% more than the guy in second place.

All new employees start at ?28-30k.

Pay rises are linked to revenue generated over two quarters:

?45k per quarter x 2 = pay rise to ?32500
?60k per quarter x 2 = pay rise to ?35000 and company car (my current level) (I receive an extra ?200 per month instead of a company car)
?75k per quarter x 2 = pay rise to ?40000 and company car upgrade

Being in sales we also get commission which significantly boosts our earnings.

My reason for wanting a pay rise is because I know for a fact that another consultant who bills less than me joined the company on ?34000. This was because he already had some experience in our field. I know this because I picked up the invoice from the recruitment agency that supplied him, it was printed off and left on the office printer. From the size of their fee and knowing they charge 20% of a candidates salary it was easy to work out what his salary was. This was two years ago and I have kept the information to myself. Discussing salary is not permitted and can be considered a disciplinary breach. Also, last week the consultant in question mentioned to a colleague that his basic salary was roughly ?2800, 2800 x 12 = ?34k.

This consultant joined in mid 2011 and by the end of 2011 I had achieved back to back quarters of ?60k and the pay rise and finished as top billing consultant. For 2012 I billed roughly double what he billed.

Therefore I think I have a valid argument that I deserve a pay rise. They made an exception to their pay structure for this guy and based on his performance vs his I deserve to be paid more than him. I have known for two years (by accident) what his salary was and have done nothing about it.

I should mention that I have had a few disciplinary issues at the company, nothing major just from time to time I can be a bit too direct/blunt/abrasive and have high standards.

I should also mention that after a work Summer function last year the consultant in question got drunk, tried to start a fight with me, threw a few punches and some racial slurs. So his behaviour is not exactly pristine.

Also, I along with him and a few others were recently promoted to manage others. Being the top billing consultant I was given two consultants without any clients of their own. After one month I was able to help one of them land their first client, an achievement I am proud of. This responsibility also gives me chance to improve my commission when people on my team generate revenue.

What do you guys think?
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

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Ossoi_sl said:
I work in sales and have been with the company for 3.5 years, I am the second longest serving employee and for the last two years I have been the top billing consultant.Last year I billed 50% more than the guy in second place.
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This is all that companies care about, and should be more than enough to start the conversation on a raise. Just point out to them what you've done for them in hard numbers, and ask for a substantial raise. If you don't get it, then you should look for another job (while still working for them). Don't get caught up in talking trash about this consultant (with the slurs, etc.). That just makes you look like you are not a team player.

You need to decide what type of person you are. Most successful people know their value, and won't accept less. They'll be on to the next position at another company before they take less than what they are worth. I made it a point to show to my boss how much more in billings I was bringing in than the rest of his team. If you create value, you have a right to ask for some of that value. Just do it respectfully.

Employers are supposed to be paying attention to who is doing the work. Sometimes, you have to make it apparent to them, if they are obtuse. Most of the time, when it comes to billings, it falls under the 80/20 rule. 20% of your employees are bringing in 80% of the work. Not everyone hustles, and a smart manager realizes that not everyone is created equally. You have to pay the 20% better, because if you don't, they leave, and the company loses billings.
 
Tmac

Tmac

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Lyrical_sl said:
Most successful people know their value, and won't accept less. They'll be on to the next position at another company before they take less than what they are worth.
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This.

Lyrical_sl said:
If you create value, you have a right to ask for some of that value. Just do it respectfully.
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And this.

I wouldn't even discuss disciplinary/relational stuff, because all that's important is the bottom line and that's what you're wanting to discuss with them.
 
Lenas

Lenas

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I think your argument for a raise is based far too much on the actions of others. Your whole basis is pretty much "I'm better than this guy so I deserve more," which is fine to have in your head, but don't give that impression to your boss. You need to highlight everything you do best and leave the "it's not fair" arguments at home.
 
Tmac

Tmac

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Lenas_sl said:
I think your argument for a raise is based far too much on the actions of others. Your whole basis is pretty much "I'm better than this guy so I deserve more," which is fine to have in your head, but don't give that impression to your boss. You need to highlight everything you do best and leave the "it's not fair" arguments at home.
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His main argument is that he's bringing in 50% more revenue than the #2 guy.

He mentioned the rest of it because he wanted to make us aware of it, so that we'd give unbiased advice.

You should've just said you agree with Lyrical...
 
I

Izuldan_sl

shitlord
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Ossoi_sl said:
Pay rises are linked to revenue generated over two quarters:

?45k per quarter x 2 = pay rise to ?32500
?60k per quarter x 2 = pay rise to ?35000 and company car (my current level) (I receive an extra ?200 per month instead of a company car)
?75k per quarter x 2 = pay rise to ?40000 and company car upgrade

Being in sales we also get commission which significantly boosts our earnings.
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I'm not sure what you are asking for.....are you asking for an increase in your base salary? Why should that even be a bother to you? Aren't you making a lot off of commissions? If you really are doing 50% more business than the next guy, then aren't you making a lot more in commission, i.e. you are taking home a lot more money?

I would just make sure your commission structure is tiered properly. Honestly if my #1 guy came in asking for a raise to his base salary, I would tell him to pack his shit and get the fuck out. Well, not really because he's been with me for 10 years and is like a brother, but I would chastise him for his stupidity.

As an example, his base salary is only only a few thousand more than the #6 sales guy in my company. However, because of commission and performance bonuses, his salary is triple (almost 4x really) than the #6 guy. Why? Because he brings in a ton more business and is rewarded accordingly. His base salary is only about 12.5% of his actual earnings. Over 80% of his salary is derived from commissions (performance bonuses) because he's a stud. Contrast that with my #6 guy, who derives about 70% of his income from base salary, and only 30% from commission, because he's not as productive compared to the #1 guy. Even if I gave the #1 guy a 10% raise to his base salary......he would only be bringing home an additional 1-2% income. That makes no sense to bitch over.

I'm assuming your situation is similar, correct me if I'm wrong. But why complain about an increase in your base salary when you make a lot of your money based on commissions? If anything, ask your boss to add more tiers to your commission, so people like yourself who supposedly bring in more business can be rewarded accordingly.
 
Shonuff

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Izuldan_sl said:
I'm not sure what you are asking for.....are you asking for an increase in your base salary? Why should that even be a bother to you? Aren't you making a lot off of commissions? If you really are doing 50% more business than the next guy, then aren't you making a lot more in commission, i.e. you are taking home a lot more money?

I would just make sure your commission structure is tiered properly. Honestly if my #1 guy came in asking for a raise to his base salary, I would tell him to pack his shit and get the fuck out. Well, not really because he's been with me for 10 years and is like a brother, but I would chastise him for his stupidity.

As an example, his base salary is only only a few thousand more than the #6 sales guy in my company. However, because of commission and performance bonuses, his salary is triple (almost 4x really) than the #6 guy. Why? Because he brings in a ton more business and is rewarded accordingly. His base salary is only about 12.5% of his actual earnings. Over 80% of his salary is derived from commissions (performance bonuses) because he's a stud. Contrast that with my #6 guy, who derives about 70% of his income from base salary, and only 30% from commission, because he's not as productive compared to the #1 guy. Even if I gave the #1 guy a 10% raise to his base salary......he would only be bringing home an additional 1-2% income. That makes no sense to bitch over.

I'm assuming your situation is similar, correct me if I'm wrong. But why complain about an increase in your base salary when you make a lot of your money based on commissions? If anything, ask your boss to add more tiers to your commission, so people like yourself who supposedly bring in more business can be rewarded accordingly.
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Good point.
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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Yes, commission over the course of the year can more than double the base salary.

The point is if you have a basic pay structure that supposedly everyone is meant to join the company on, and the only way to get more is to hit targets, but then you make an exception to this structure for one person (whilst putting in a contract clause that talking about basic salary is forbidden) and that person is your #3 #4 consultant, then surely the guy in #1 who has earnt the increases through hitting the targets should feel a little put out.

I mean, why even link targets to a basic pay increase if basic pay is irrelevant cause of commission? The purpose of the basic pay increase is surely to give an additional reward and surely also to separate those that can hit the targets from those that can't. If you make an exception to the structure for one person it diminishes the achievement of hitting the targets and diminishes the significance of the pay increase
 
Ossoi

Ossoi

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Oh and also, I found out earlier this week that I am not entitled to 2% commission from what my team bill. This 2% is only given to the Manager of the top performing team, this is judged on billing and other KPI's (eg number of sales conversations, leads generated, etc) - although they have said that this will be reviewed
 
D

Dabamf_sl

shitlord
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It sounds like you don't have much of an argument without it getting potentially ugly. If you are getting paid according to the structure the company set up, you don't have much ground for asking to get paid more than that. Your argument is that they made an exception for one guy, but how can you possibly bring that up without making it a direct him-vs-you comparison? It sounds to me more like he did a great job negotiating his pay and managing to look better than he really is, and he's reaping the benefits of that. While it's not "fair", it's seems more like a "kudos to him" scenario than a "you are getting screwed" scenario, especially because you are making a lot more money than him anyway thanks to commissions.

If multiple people had exceptions, then you could approach your boss with the "I have 50% more sales than #2" argument. When they counter with "our pay structure is set up this way, you've always known this" you could counter with a general statement of "that's how it's supposed to be set up, but I know it's not consistently applied." But with just 1 guy, it turns into a direct comparison. You also could end up getting the guy in trouble/fired if they think he's talking about his pay.

I don't think it's a fight worth picking. Your only firm argument is "It's not fair", and that kind of complaint always make you look like a whiner.
 
C

CnCGOD_sl

shitlord
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The best way to get a pay raise is to have a competing offer in your back pocket. You don't have to get it out but defend why you ask for more (that % talk) and if they balk at it, say you know the market can sustain more and show them the offer if need be. (This only works if the offer is a job you are willing to take however).
 
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