Legal Advice: Poorly Repaired Equipment

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
OK, so I have a Grapple Truck I use in the business. Last year, the frame started cracking. We have days where we are picking up 3-5 tons of debris, there is a lot of wear and tear. My normal mechanic said he could fix it for $2,500, through welding.

So:

1- Last Summer, we had it welded for $2500, and it lasted a year.

2- This Summer it started cracking again, and he worked on it. Immediately after getting the truck back, it started cracking the same day we got it.

3- He worked on the truck two more times to try to fix it, and each time, it started cracking the same day it came out of the shop. After the third try at welding it, he told me he wasn't going to warranty it any more.

4- The weld consisted of putting a metal plate on that was 1/3 of an inch and about ten inches long on both sides. We had it looked at by four other mechanics that told me the reason why we were having problems with it was because it was welded (the frame needed to flex to support that type of moving weight, so it needed to be bolted on instead), and it wasn't thick or long enough.

5- I had someone else who fixed a competitor's Grapple truck the first time look at it (and it had zero problems afterwards). I paid him 5k, and he put a bar on both sides that was one inch thick and eight feet long. He didn't weld it, he bolted it so it could flex.

6- I've been told by numerous mechanics to not let the previous guy weld it anymore, because he wasn't using the correct fix, and that heating up the frame would weaken it. Too many times, if the frame was heated up, and my 50k truck would just fall apart and be unrepairable. So I gave him the opportunity to fix the problem three times, but I was running the risk of losing the entire truck due to his incompetence. Mind you, I'm still making payments on the truck.

7- Total lost productivity due to the mechanic's incompetence was $15,000. I lost 500 a day because he told me he could fix it, but he had it in the shop for almost two months. My guys had to move the debris by hand. Instead of being able to pick it up in five minutes, they had to move 2-3 tons of debris a day by hand. It cost them four to five hours a day more to do the same amount of work. And this took eight weeks, versus the new mechanic taking two weeks (and the fix has been permanent). So I wasted a lot of man hours trying to keep working.

Long story short, I didn't pay the mechanic for the first fix, because it didn't fix the problem. I don't think I should have to, given that he cost me 15k in lost productivity, charged me 5k over two repairs, and I still had to pay someone 5k to do the job he was unable to do.

In a court of law, what are the issues here? Maybe some of the more legally minded people can tell me, before I start paying my lawyer. I don't plan on suing him for damages, but he may try to sue me. What are my defenses?
 

Nester

Vyemm Raider
4,929
3,125
Your problem is in your 3rd sentence

There is a lot of wear and tear in the operation of the machine. so much so it broke the first time, he did fix the problem and it is very hard to connect a wear and tear issue to a faulty repair. Think of this way. the Machine had broken Prior to him working on it. He did seem to go above the call of duty by doing more work, You mentioned "warranty" so i am not sure why you paid him more than once.

Really your only recourse imo is to just never go back. If someone asks your opinion of the mechanic your response should be, he did some work for me in the past but i dont think i will let him do work for me in the future. Avoid openly criticizing him or he could open up an action against you.

If he does try and sue you, your best recourse would be to try and reach a compromise, trying to defend the action often costs more than settling. Do not forget that it costs him money to work on your machine.

IMO you should have paid him. Since you did not like the work you simply should have found a new mechanic.


I am not a lawyer nor do I not represent myself as one.
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
Mind you, when I say "it" started cracking, it was his weld that was cracking through the middle. I got nervous when he started denying his weld was cracking, when it clearly was.

My stance is that he was supposed to be competent, but I had four other companies say his fix was not the right one. There should be an implied warranty that it would last longer than an hour.
 

Izuldan_sl

shitlord
154
0
I'm a little confused....

Have you paid him anything at all? You say you haven't paid for the first fix, was that the $2500 that lasted a year? Or do you mean the first fix after that? And was he even charging you for the subsequent fixes when it was under warranty? The guy you paid $5k to.....did that do the trick? Is the truck OK now?
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
I'm a little confused....

Have you paid him anything at all? You say you haven't paid for the first fix, was that the $2500 that lasted a year? Or do you mean the first fix after that? And was he even charging you for the subsequent fixes when it was under warranty? The guy you paid $5k to.....did that do the trick? Is the truck OK now?
I paid the first guy $2,500 for the first fix. That's because it wasn't cracking and lasted a year. The second fix (which turned into two more fixes), I didn't pay him because his weld started cracking the first day out of the shop. The other guy, who I paid 5k, instead of putting in a piece of metal 1/3 wide by eight inches long, put in at least an inch of steel that was eight feet long. The truck is now solid as a rock.

I don't know why I have to pay the original mechanic an additional $2,500 when I had to pay someone else to fix it for 5k. And that original mechanic kept weakening the frame by welding on it.
 

Izuldan_sl

shitlord
154
0
Ah ok, that makes more sense. Did you sign a written contract with him for the work done, or was it more off-the-cuff and a verbal estimate/agreement type of thing?
 

BrutulTM

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.
<Silver Donator>
14,425
2,207
I think you're justified in not paying him for the second fix since he was clearly incompetent. I doubt he will try to sue you over it because that will just make you tell everyone you know how incompetent he is and probably cost him more business. If he does sue you will have to decide if the headache of hiring a lawyer and fighting it is worth it for $2500 but I bet he won't go that far.
 

Ilum_sl

shitlord
30
1
What is he going to sue Lyrical for? An agreement goes two ways, he didn't perform the repairs so Lyrical doesn't have so pay. This isn't legal rocketscience; at least not under Dutch law, can't speak about US law.

Even if he wants to sue the burden of proof is on the mechanic, with no written contract and only biased witnesses this won't go far.
 
558
0
If we're only talking about 2500 bucks then i believe that, depending on what state you are in, any lawsuit would probably go to a justice of the peace/small claims court. Think Judge Judy. If you've watched any of that, you probably realize that you won't be dealing with overly complicated issues of law, and you probably don't need a lawyer. Just go in and explain that you paid him for a specific service that wasn't delivered.
 

Tmac

Adventurer
<Gold Donor>
9,277
15,733
I'm not a lawyer.

I'd take pictures of the truck patch job that actually fixed it, include it in an email/letter, and send it to the mechanic that failed. Include in the email that he failed to meet the "specific purpose" agreed to in your verbal contract (which was to fix the issue), which I believe gives you reason to sue him for the additional expenses you had to pay to get said specific purpose fulfilled. While the verbal contract is valid, I don't know if it's actually enforceable. So, yeah, I think his only option would be small claims court and if you've documented everything, I think you've got a strong case.
 

Cad

<Bronze Donator>
24,487
45,378
The issue is whether you asked him to "weld this part" or whether he said this repair would "fix the cracking problem". If you asked him to weld it and he welded it and that didn't fix the problem, thats not his fault. If he said he would fix the problem, and fixed it by welding, but welding was inadequate, then that is his fault.

Which was it?
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
The issue is whether you asked him to "weld this part" or whether he said this repair would "fix the cracking problem". If you asked him to weld it and he welded it and that didn't fix the problem, thats not his fault. If he said he would fix the problem, and fixed it by welding, but welding was inadequate, then that is his fault.

Which was it?
He said his weld would fix the problem. He then kept the vehicle in the shop for almost two months trying to fix the weld, because he thought that would fix the problem. And it turns out, instead of a six inch long plate, the plate needed to be six feet long. This fix was what was recommended by him, and not by me.
 

Izuldan_sl

shitlord
154
0
He said his weld would fix the problem. He then kept the vehicle in the shop for almost two months trying to fix the weld, because he thought that would fix the problem. And it turns out, instead of a six inch long plate, the plate needed to be six feet long. This fix was what was recommended by him, and not by me.
I'm not a mechanic, but something just doesn't seem right to me.......he kept your truck for 2 months? To weld a 6-inch plate? That sounds to me like something that can be done in a day or two. Am I wrong about this? I would have been calling his ass up a week after I gave him the truck for an update, and if he told me it was going to take 2 months, I would have asked why so long.....maybe you did that? If so, what was the reason he gave for needing 2 months?

When the second person did fix your truck by putting in that 8 ft long beam.....how long did they have your truck for?
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
I'm not a mechanic, but something just doesn't seem right to me.......he kept your truck for 2 months? To weld a 6-inch plate? That sounds to me like something that can be done in a day or two. Am I wrong about this? I would have been calling his ass up a week after I gave him the truck for an update, and if he told me it was going to take 2 months, I would have asked why so long.....maybe you did that? If so, what was the reason he gave for needing 2 months?

When the second person did fix your truck by putting in that 8 ft long beam.....how long did they have your truck for?
It's not something you want to rush through. The truck needs to be taken apart and put back together. The grapple seems like it's a ton, and you can't fortify the frame with a ton sitting on it. Then it needs to be put back together again.

Both guys took two weeks each time they had it. The first guy had it four times at two weeks apiece. The second guy had it one week, and it's solid.
 

iannis

Musty Nester
31,351
17,656
Sounds like a time to cut your losses. Don't pay the 2500 but don't go after him for the 15 grand. If he comes after you it's time to start talking about that 15,000.

Not a lawyer, no idea about the law. I bet you probably could get some of that 15k... but the lawyer would take 90% of it, so why bother. Cutting losses just seems sensible. He thought he could fix it, you trusted him to fix it enough to operate with spoken agreements... turns out he couldn't fix it. I doubt there's any real malice or fraud involved for either of you.

Edit: I mean, it's unprofessional of him and a problem for you -- but if it's not impacting your business so bad that you've got to fire a worker to make up the difference maybe this is best left as a "I've used him in the past wouldn't in the future" sort of thing.
 

Shonuff

Mr. Poopybutthole
5,538
790
Sounds like a time to cut your losses. Don't pay the 2500 but don't go after him for the 15 grand. If he comes after you it's time to start talking about that 15,000.

Not a lawyer, no idea about the law. I bet you probably could get some of that 15k... but the lawyer would take 90% of it, so why bother. Cutting losses just seems sensible. He thought he could fix it, you trusted him to fix it enough to operate with spoken agreements... turns out he couldn't fix it. I doubt there's any real malice or fraud involved for either of you.

Edit: I mean, it's unprofessional of him and a problem for you -- but if it's not impacting your business so bad that you've got to fire a worker to make up the difference maybe this is best left as a "I've used him in the past wouldn't in the future" sort of thing.
Its completely soured our relationship. He hasn't had the balls to call me directly. He'll either call my Manager or Secretary, or have one of his employees call me. He knows it's screwed up.