Making an Classic RPG - best maps, dungeons etc.

Siliconemelons · Aug 3, 2017

So I finally got RPG maker MV.

I am holding off on my "big" RPG project - and focusing on making a high quality classic RPG with the included and DLC resources that is "smaller"

After this project- I will take lessons learned etc. And focus on a bigger game and buying and hiring art and music assets.

What are some of your favorite classic RPG elements, in terms of environments, castles, dungeons or whatever.

I am looking to replay some classics and pay close attention to the maps and detail work, so I am seeking some suggestions.

A lot to what makes games feel "real" or "Profesional" is not just the base look but the layout and design of the paths, the routes etc.

Thanks all

Sinzar · Aug 3, 2017

I can say one thing I don't like at all about some rpg map layouts is when the path is nothing but a single line from start to finish. Basically the one really long hallway dungeon design with no alternate or hidden paths is completely lazy.

Rezz · Aug 3, 2017

Phoenix cave, FFVI. Lots of dead ends, cool monsters, lava and shit everywhere... very fun stuff.

Tower of Babil from FFIV also comes to mind as a stellar dungeon.

Any of the Tetsujin (possibly misspelled!) ruins from the 7th Saga. Really liked the mechanical/natural look to them.

Really, just plow through classic SNES games like Breath of Fire 2, the FFs, the Lufias, and you'll get some great material.

Bandwagon · Aug 3, 2017

Please avoid the shit that forces you into a different body/world for "missions".

The Fade in Dragon age sucked.
Water levels suck.
Playing as a wooly mammoth sucks.

Skills with synergy are awesome.

Party member AI a la Dragon Age is awesome.

Roaming mobs are awesome.

I never played the "classic" RPGs, so not sure if any of my input isbrelevant. Baldurs gate was the first RPG I played and it hooked me.

Flight · Aug 3, 2017

The maze level in the dark in original Bards Tale would be good made in this, so you have to draw out a map to know whats going on.

Caliane · Aug 3, 2017

Rezz said:
Phoenix cave, FFVI. Lots of dead ends, cool monsters, lava and shit everywhere... very fun stuff.
.

try to avoid the "two hallways. I walk down hallway 1 for 10 steps. oh, no this seems like its the "right way to go", I better go explore hallway 2 for the chest/loot. walk back, go down hallway 2. oh, this was the right hallway all along. better go back to hallway 1 again, to get the chest/loot that is at the end.."

ways to avoid this. subtle clues on what is the "right path". well lit, a road/trail, etc. side paths being clearly side paths due to being overgrown, cobwebs etc.
always have a save point, before leaving the area. so, if they find the exit, they know its an exit. and can stop, save. and go back to get anything they missed. Additionally, maybe even shortcuts, ala skyrim, from that endpoint, or from that loot sidepath, to dump you back out, quickly.

Siliconemelons · Aug 3, 2017

Thanks for the input.

Tower of babil is one I really remember - but it was also very linear... however it is constantly refereed to as an exceptional part of the game...

I think some of that has to do with the visuals of the tower and the circumstances and position you are in leading up to it. It almost is a "sub-sub section" rather than another dungeon to crawl- it's big...but properly so... it has tons of unique little encounters and tons of treasure and bosses on bosses. You got pushed into it, not much prep time if any...yet was designed to be a achievable challenge if super peeped or if taken unaware.

Siliconemelons · Aug 6, 2017

So my first "castle" I looked to Baron Castle in FF4 - looking at it overall and as a map - it's smaller than I remember.

I will post some pictures of it once I "tighten up the graphics"

But FF4 overworld and town-city characters are traditional 1 "square" while in 6 they are 2 "squares tall" -- in RPG maker MV they are 1.5ish to look traditional but have more range and animation- so getting a feel for the proper "sizing" of things is key... lots of play testing to just wonder around and feel the size and visuals.

pharmakos · Aug 6, 2017

those subtle details really matter. do you have a plot outlined?

Siliconemelons · Aug 6, 2017

I have a "Big" plot - but I am not doing that right now- that one I want to do once I save some money up- have a stronger understanding of the system- and purchase or consign almost all the art and music elements. that one will be longer.

The plot I have for this game actually grew out of a smaller idea I had - and grew as I made the overworld map. I wanted to make something very classic, but not a direct rip-off of anything overly familiar.

I started wanting it to be "open world"-ish with no direct "from A go to B" and had the leveling and story all be generally accessible in phases- but I do not know if I am going to keep it that way... I may just have it be "X,Y and Z need to be done - you can go to whatever one you want in whatever order" in the middle and the start and end be more linear.

I am drawing up a physical plot outline now- as it helps to have while building events and event triggers etc.

Here is the over-world and the castle - spoiler-ed for size - as you can see the overworld is relatively small, I wanted the entire game to be on one landmass

Hateyou · Aug 7, 2017

Don't split your party up for very long, it's always annoying.

Don't confine players to certain characters, let people choose from a pool like FF6 did it.

Class flexibility is good but don't allow everyone to do everything and wind up all becoming the same character with different pixels. Think FF12 vs FF12:Zodiac age. Zodiac Age winds.

Add in some cool stuff like a pitch black dungeon where torches let you see more, flooded passages you can empty / fill to open new paths or uncover loot, dungeons you can't use metal weapons due to magnetic fields, dungeons only femal or male classes can enter. Don't make them excruciating long or anything, but making unique shit like that makes them memorable.

Caliane · Aug 8, 2017

Xadion said:
I have a "Big" plot - but I am not doing that right now- that one I want to do once I save some money up- have a stronger understanding of the system- and purchase or consign almost all the art and music elements. that one will be longer.

The plot I have for this game actually grew out of a smaller idea I had - and grew as I made the overworld map. I wanted to make something very classic, but not a direct rip-off of anything overly familiar.

I started wanting it to be "open world"-ish with no direct "from A go to B" and had the leveling and story all be generally accessible in phases- but I do not know if I am going to keep it that way... I may just have it be "X,Y and Z need to be done - you can go to whatever one you want in whatever order" in the middle and the start and end be more linear.

I am drawing up a physical plot outline now- as it helps to have while building events and event triggers etc.

Here is the over-world and the castle - spoiler-ed for size - as you can see the overworld is relatively small, I wanted the entire game to be on one landmass

View attachment 150873 View attachment 150874

to get to the throne room, you enter the courtyard, go between the barracks (with only 7 beds?! and 24 chairs) and dining hall with 60 chairs..., into the grand hallway which just goes between a storage room, and sitting room, then into a chapel? in the chapel you go down, into the prison, then into a gated stairwell, up into the library, into another stairwell.
Also, no royal quarters, no maid staff quarters, council quarters. And the main keep, is OUTSIDE the castle walls, making the walls pointless. 0/10 defense. would invade. I will accept engine limitations for there being no gate on the courtyard, making the defenses even worse.

not joking, when I would suggest playing some base building games like prison Architect, gnomoria, rimworld to understand pathing, and desire pathing. Its kindof infurating to play an RPG and have annoying round about ways to get to simple routine features.
a save inn? should be right next to the towns entrance. (remember dw1 when you had to walk all the way back to the king to save?)
It also makes the towns themselves much more immersive if the layouts make sense. kitchens have backdoors which lead to water/wood. Servants have quarters, and hallways.

Siliconemelons · Aug 8, 2017

I do appreciate your and all feedback.

I think that is getting a wee bit overly detailed for a classic type RPG... the reality of castles never much was in consideration - more of flow, and I agree with you on flow.

I think this specific example of mine needs some explanation as to what it is.

The idea, plot...whatever... is that "ye ol thousands of years ago" there were 2 big sides, they all had advanced technology - "yadda yadda yadda" they killed themselves - only a few survived in the aftermath- the world was scorched and the only place left was this small island that was used as a transportation hub- so "thousands of years later" there is a church like power that keeps technology and advancement suppressed for the good of the people - its very totalitarian etc. so the "big tower" that's in the back - ( that is up to the water edge cliff if you look at overworld and at it, and even boats are seen as technology and advancing beyond normal means and is forbidden..so its defensible..but there really is no "strife" per say as it stands ) is this holy tower that not anyone can just go in, there are secrets and all the typical JRPG type things... so it is not designed like a typical castle per say.

And RPGs never have 1:1 relations in beds to people, seats to beds, tables to chairs even... it mostly is to convey what it is... this is even so in DW and all the FF games, not until recently have things started to be portrayed in a 1:1 type.

However I think I will move the jail to being down and the rest still up on the main tower thing.

I will add more beds and see how it looks.

Trollocaust · Aug 11, 2017

All of Baldur's Gate 1/2. Especially the low magic world of BG1.

The castle management from NWN2.

Asmadai · Aug 11, 2017

I get the same feeling of making some grandiose RPG project everytime I break down and install RPG Maker.

A few hours in, I get overwhelmed with how much work there is to be done, and call it quits. Every. Fucking. Time.

Good luck, OP.

Hateyou · Aug 11, 2017

Asmadai said:
I get the same feeling of making some grandiose RPG project everytime I break down and install RPG Maker.

A few hours in, I get overwhelmed with how much work there is to be done, and call it quits. Every. Fucking. Time.

Good luck, OP.

Every single person I've ever seen on any forum I'm on does the exact same thing, don't feel bad. I expect the same to happen with this one.

This is why I've never even DLed RPG Maker, I knmow I'll just have all these cool ideas and never do it, so why even try.

Sulrn · Aug 11, 2017

Bandwagon said:
Party member AI a la Dragon Age: Origins is awesome.

Fixed. AI got dumber with each iteration in the series (and less controllable).

One of the level designs that always stuck with me was the FF7 over world / under world / dungeon subtly sectioning based off transportation methods unlocked at different points in the game.

xzi · Aug 11, 2017

RPG Maker is so much fun though even if you don't finish a game. Have they increased the resolution you're allowed to save the game as? For years the limit was like 800x600 which was mostly a turnoff for me.

Caliane · Aug 11, 2017

Hateyou said:
Every single person I've ever seen on any forum I'm on does the exact same thing, don't feel bad. I expect the same to happen with this one.

This is why I've never even DLed RPG Maker, I knmow I'll just have all these cool ideas and never do it, so why even try.

heh. same. I know I don't have the time. If RPG maker was around back before I got into comics, probably would have been that, not comic art. But yeah, I wish I could.

Siliconemelons · Aug 11, 2017

Yeah they increased the resolution in MV and you can natively publish them in ios exe and android - and and stock stuff and stuff purchased DLC are licensed for resale.

MV has a lot of improvements from over the years, I have used XP 2000 and 2003 and 7? or one of them.

Thanks for all the input and support hehe.

It does take a lot of work to get events and NPCs set up- and even a single "castle" takes quite a bit of time to get done if you want it to be slightly polished.

It is easy to get overwhelmed and just scrap the project - but this is my "Yearly" project of self-enrichment - my last was writing and self publishing a childrens book for my kids preschool.

So I did scope this game down, and sence it eventually will be sold mostly in app stores - I think I am going to focus and make more linear the plotline rather than trying to figgle the system and create a quasi-open world. I still may keep it basic- intro - intro mission - then 3 "main" quests - then finale. With some non-mandatory subquests.

Making an Classic RPG - best maps, dungeons etc.

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