Middle East and European Craziness Thread

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#2
Mursi now threatening to impose a 'version' of martial law which allows the military to arrest civilians.https://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/w...otests.html?hp

If Mr. Morsi goes through with the plan, it would represent a historic role reversal. Before the ouster of Hosni Mubarak last year, Egypt?s military-backed authoritarian presidents had spent six decades warning against the threat of an Islamist takeover and using martial law to hold onto their power. Mr. Morsi, a former leader of the once-banned Muslim Brotherhood, and many of his fellow Islamists were jailed under those decrees for their opposition to the government.

A turn back to the military would come just four months after Mr. Morsi managed to pry political power out of the hands of the generals, who refused for months after his election to allow him full presidential power.
 

Tmac

Lord Nagafen Raider
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#3
This thread is a lie. Obama says, "World never been safer...".
 

Fuse

<Donors Crew>
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#5
I wonder if the military would side with Mursi. Their neutrality during the Arab Spring protests is what allowed them to succeed and get rind of Mubarek, and kept Egypt from becoming Syria 2.0 (well, 1.0)

Edit:

The military gave him an ultimatum and he annuled his decree.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...4184663962.221
 
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#6
I guess his control over the military isn't as strong as he might wish.
 
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#7
I honestly laughed when the term "Arab Spring" started being thrown around, along with some wild notion that there would actually be real democracy in the middle east (outside of Israel). As someone that has travelled there, it is forever going to be one corrupt despot replaced by another until such day that the seculars outnumber the islamicists. I'm not holding by breath on that one.
 
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#9
I honestly laughed when the term "Arab Spring" started being thrown around, along with some wild notion that there would actually be real democracy in the middle east (outside of Israel). As someone that has travelled there, it is forever going to be one corrupt despot replaced by another until such day that the seculars outnumber the islamicists. I'm not holding by breath on that one.
Right cause it's only democracy when they like us.
 
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#10
Isn't there also the question of whether Israel is really an inclusive democracy? I'm not familiar with what it takes to get voting rights in Israel, but aren't there lots of Arabs who aren't allowed to vote but make their living there?
 
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#13
I'm not even sure why we insist they have to be a democracy. It is their country after all lol

It seems the majority over there want a part theocracy type system and they are gonna vote on the Constitution soon.

The protesters wants to continue the revolution and make the vote illegitimate by any means necessary so they can get a new system.

I can't see the new revolution strategy working unless they actually have larger numbers, the best way to prove their point imo is to just show up and vote no.

If the protesters can sink the Constitution they can start drafting a new one, and I don't really fault Morsi too much, yah it was a politically inept move, but that court system over there is intentionally hindering the vote.

It's not for the courts to decide on the Constitution (opinion not getting into any legalities), it's for the voters.


edit..

and I don't think a theocracy is a great form of government, I just don't see how you can force people to be free when they don't want to be.

If the protesters are in the majority, that's the only way I see them getting what they want.
 
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#15
Arabs that have citizenship can vote. There are a number of elected arab officials in the Knesset. Ironically the arab citizens have more democratic rights in Israel than they do in the rest of the middle east. It's actually a big worry for the Jewish population, as the arabs significantly outbreed the Jews.. France will probably one day suffer the same fate.

Seems to be a big trend on these boards to knock Israel, but on my world tour in the mid '90's I spent a month in Tel Aviv. Chicks were super hot, hash was great, and boy did they know how to party.


Isn't there also the question of whether Israel is really an inclusive democracy? I'm not familiar with what it takes to get voting rights in Israel, but aren't there lots of Arabs who aren't allowed to vote but make their living there?
 
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#16
There are a few people who knock the Israeli government and the decisions made for various reasons, but I have yet to read anyone hating on the country itself and the people in it. It's extremely stupid that asking questions get you labelled anti-Israeli/Jewish.
 
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#17
The problem I see is one of hatred. Yes, a lot of Arab's hate the Jewish people, but it's also the case that the Jewish people hate the Arab's as well.

Here would be an example of how I don't see Israel being inclusive to Arabs.

Opinion polls in Israel show that a majority view intermarriage between Jewish and Arab people as treason.

They even have groups set up to actively harass mixed heritage couples out on dates.

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/Article.aspx?id=155387


They have gone as far as setting up counseling centers with psychologists to adjust Jewish people's way of thinking if they are open to dating Arabs.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world...s-dating-arabs


I doubt keeping their culture "pure" is going to do much for peace. I see the issue of Israeli (Jewish) hatred of Arab's as just a big a problem as the Arab's hatred for Israel.
 
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#18
Shrug, when I was there I didn't see any evidence of racism against the local arab population. There were some "bad" arab neighborhoods that were associated with crime, but certainly no more racist than what white people here in Dallas have to say about going down to the Fair Park area around Malcolm X boulevard.

The attitude there is definitely heavily tinged with fear of cultural extinction.. They're surrounded by millions of arabs that not only far outnumber them, but far outbreed them.

I'd be interested if you took a poll of white americans on whether they would approve of their daughter marrying a black man. Your results would not surprisingly be in tandem with that Israeli poll your cite.

You're definitely right, the Israeli's I hung with hated non-Israeli arabs, so can that then be defined as racism? In any case, the Israeli kids I met went to school to learn math and stuff, and TV was comprised of old American TV shows dubbed over in Hebrew. Palestinian kids got children books that demonized Jews-- perverted versions of Little Red Riding Hood. Arab children TV hosts would read stories where Jews were demonized. truly twisted shit.

They both hate each, but while one is gained through experience, the other is sickeningly trained from childhood.


The problem I see is one of hatred. Yes, a lot of Arab's hate the Jewish people, but it's also the case that the Jewish people hate the Arab's as well.

Here would be an example of how I don't see Israel being inclusive to Arabs.

Opinion polls in Israel show that a majority view intermarriage between Jewish and Arab people as treason.

They even have groups set up to actively harass mixed heritage couples out on dates.

http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/Article.aspx?id=155387


They have gone as far as setting up counseling centers with psychologists to adjust Jewish people's way of thinking if they are open to dating Arabs.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world...s-dating-arabs


I doubt keeping their culture "pure" is going to do much for peace. I see the issue of Israeli (Jewish) hatred of Arab's as just a big a problem as the Arab's hatred for Israel.
 
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#19
Yeah I'm sure there's no experience the Palestinians have lived through that would make them hate the Israelis (and irrationally transfer that hatred to Jews generally).