Pit bulls - The Breed of Peace

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Hoss

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Why is saying that they were bred to be good fighters (not just one trait, mind you) dumb?



http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/2004-exc...nforcement.pdf
That's pretty stupid shit and directly contradicts the little I actually know about dog fighting. People seem to think dog fights are always 'to the death'. They are not. If a dog doesn't want to fight any longer, they just lay down and the other dog leaves them alone. Sure, people like Vick might then kill them, but that's a different story. Pits don't fight because they are bloodthirsty. They fight because it's fun.
 

Gavinmad

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Actually I'm completely willing to believe that fighting dogs will ignore submission signs and attempt to kill a belly up dog. The idea that this has somehow been bred into them and isn't a result of their brutal training is completely fucking laughable though. And yes, they fight because they're bloodthirsty, because they've been trained and beaten and conditioned into being bloodthirsty.
 

Lanx

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That's pretty stupid shit and directly contradicts the little I actually know about dog fighting. People seem to think dog fights are always 'to the death'. They are not. If a dog doesn't want to fight any longer, they just lay down and the other dog leaves them alone. Sure, people like Vick might then kill them, but that's a different story. Pits don't fight because they are bloodthirsty. They fight because it's fun.
From the docs i've seen on dog fighting, it seems to be house rules, one ring might be to the death, the other might be when the dog can't continue. In the end, it's to appease the crowd, cuz they're the ones placing all the bets and fronting the prize money.

the owners really have no say to "thrown in the towel" but they do reposition the dogs alot, like when a boxer clinches another, the ref breaks them up and starts them over again, the 2 owners are the ones responsible to start over again.
 

Hoss

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Good point about repositioning. It reminded me that another thing fighting dogs are bred for is to not be human aggressive. Because you're right, my understanding is that the dogs will get broken up and repositioned numerous times in a fight. You can't do that if the bloodthirsty demon is as aggressive to people as they are to dogs.
 

Moogalak

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Actually I'm completely willing to believe that fighting dogs will ignore submission signs and attempt to kill a belly up dog. The idea that this has somehow been bred into them and isn't a result of their brutal training is completely fucking laughable though. And yes, they fight because they're bloodthirsty, because they've been trained and beaten and conditioned into being bloodthirsty.
Got a neg from some douche in this thread for saying essentially the same thing. Powerful stupid 'round here.
 

Mario Speedwagon

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there are hundreds and thousands of other dogs being destroyed at shelters each year that could use a home
Does anyone else think it's weird that shelters use the word "destroy" like this? It's like in an effort not to just use the word kill, they make it sound way fucking worse.
 

Brodhi

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Anyone want to try to defend these worthless fucking animals? I'm not in favor of banning them outright but people need to start being held strictly liable for the actions of these fucking things. If the dog commits an act of violence and attacks someone, from a legal standpoint, it should be no different than if the owner themselves committed the action.

Police: Owner used metal bar to pry pit bull off of 8-year-old girl
http://www.wtae.com/news/police-owne...-girl/32738294
You are talking about the owners right? Not the dogs themselves. The owners should be charged with whatever crime the dog commits. If that's what you mean, then yes, I agree with you.
 

Gavinmad

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Does anyone else think it's weird that shelters use the word "destroy" like this? It's like in an effort not to just use the word kill, they make it sound way fucking worse.
Shelters don't, destroy is generally what Animal Control calls it. Shelters and rescues tend to use wishy washy stuff like put down/to sleep.
 

Lanx

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Shelters don't, destroy is generally what Animal Control calls it. Shelters and rescues tend to use wishy washy stuff like put down/to sleep.
that's why i've always said killed, no point looking nice! they also use the pc term euthanized
 

General Antony

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You are talking about the owners right? Not the dogs themselves. The owners should be charged with whatever crime the dog commits. If that's what you mean, then yes, I agree with you.
I'm pretty sure dogs cannot commit crimes, just like a gun doesn't commit a crime.

Owners of property that injures someone should be treated similar based on the injuries inflicted and the extent of their intent and/or negligence. Whether it was a dog, a gun, an object falling off their roof shouldn't really matter.
 

chaos

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Yeah that dude can write books or whatever, but he is full of shit. I have family who engage in dogfighting (Texas ftw) and the cropping of ears and docking the tail has nothing to do with subtle communication cues. It is all about giving less hold for the opposing dog.

This dude's theory is that a bunch of drunken, shanty Irish douchebags fresh off the boat somehow figured out dog psychology to that level 150 years before it was a thing? Give me a fucking break.

They weren't so much bred for fighting, either, not until more recently. Originally they were bred for bear/bull baiting. Fighting came later.

One of the issues I always have with this is "pit bull" is pretty hard to define. The news sure the fuck doesn't make the effort when reporting an attack, they just go with eyewitness account and hey, he said it was a pit bull. Tuco's right, they probably are more dangerous if they attack, but that is a big if. The word temperment is being used all wrong in this thread, too. Pits aren't bred to attack humans at will. What kind of fighting dog would that be? They are specifically bred for submission to humans and temperment, in this case, refers to how they act towards humans. If a breeder says "bred for temperment" he isn't saying he breeds them to rip out the throats of children.
 

BoldW

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30 plus years of experience gets overwritten by anecdotal evidence given by highly educated and historied redneck dogfighters? I could be wrong, in which case prove it to me. But so far it just sounds like "Hey, billybob. Why yall cut their ears? Uhh, so the other dog ain't got nuttin to bite. That might be a benefit, but you saying that's the only reason hasn't been backed up. Hell I'd think an ear would be as much to hold on to as a wet paper bag In a fight.

But You're dismissing someone who has actually studied the history and spent decades in the field just because. My whole point, however, was to show that temperament and traits were what they were bred for. That doesn't mean they're all killing machines, but given the right environment or upbringing they are more likely to display those behaviors than certain other breeds.

Not acknowledging that is stupid, especially if your only reference is my buddy says or I had a pit once and he was awesome therefore pits have the same genes as other dogs.

It's like the guy that found out he had the sociopath gene...doesn't mean he's a serial killer, but had his upbringing been different he would have had a greater chance of becoming one...and he DID display a lot of those traits common to sociopaths.

The bottom line is one does in fact have to raise a pit bull differently than other breeds, because they are different.

All that being said, it does seem like prior to 1980 pit bull attacks were pretty much unheard of, or at least on pay with other attacks...since I've seen this from multiple sources, including the douche who spent his life studying dogs, I'm going to assume this is accurate, and that the cause of the sudden rise isn't a simple one reason answer.

Also, all you who say bullshit to breeding for fighting, but breeding to remove human aggression is true. ..your bias is pretty pathetically transparent.

Fyi, I own two dogs, one part terrier and one hound/shepherd mix...both of which would be on most restricted lists.
 

chaos

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Yes, I am dismissing the PhD who thinks that Jimbob and Thugalicious crop the fucking ears of dogs due to some complex dog emotional cue shit. It is silly. If you met the people involved in dog fighting, you would understand how dumb that is.

Yes, temperment and traits are bred for, in all breeds. But temperment doesn't mean "attack people", it means the opposite of that. I didn't "once have one" I spent years breeding and training them to work in home health care. I understand that they can be very dangerous.

I don't even get your last statement really. I said bullshit to them originally being bred for fighting, yes. Obviously that is a major thing they are bred for now. But again, temperment doesn't mean what you think it means. A handler doesn't want a vicious, crazed maniac dog that will turn on him as soon as he gets in the pit. The dogs are rewarded for performance, it is used as a motivator, the relationship between dog and owner is important in that scenario.

I agree with what you say on one point though, they are different and must be raised differently than other dogs. This is due to their unusual strength and ability though, not unusual aggression. At least, not innate aggression. Again, that is the opposite of what you want in a dog if you are a fighter. If you are Jimbob and you keep your dog on a chain, never socialize it, and oh your buddy told you that a little gunpowder in his food makes him meaner, then yeah, that is going to be a fucking killer. I don't know how you fix stupid people. If I did I would be rich as fuck on a golden yacht surrounded by playful, loving pitbulls.
 

Gavinmad

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Hell I'd think an ear would be as much to hold on to as a wet paper bag In a fight.
Well you've made it obvious from this statement that you've never seen dogs fighting in your life, so I didn't bother reading the rest of your stupid post.
 

BoldW

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Well you've made it obvious from this statement that you've never seen dogs fighting in your life, so I didn't bother reading the rest of your stupid post.
Well you've made it obvious that you're a dog-fighting fan and will defend it to your last breath. I won't bother reading any of your other stupid, devoid of substance posts.

Why Do Fighting Dogs Have Their Ears Cropped and Tails Docked? | ASPCA- Seriously, first fucking Google hit.

It's an organization against animal cruelty, so don't read it!
Fighting dogs used by all types of fighters may have their ears cropped and tails docked close to their bodies. This serves two purposes. First, it limits the areas of the body that another dog can grab onto in a fight, and second, it makes it more difficult for other dogs to read the animal's mood and intentions through the normal body language cues dogs use in aggressive encounters.
 

Gavinmad

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God you're fucking retarded. I used to have two dogs when I was a kid that would really get into it and we had to separate them sometimes. They *ALWAYS* went for each others ears first, and that's why fighting dogs have their ears docked.
 

BoldW

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A neighbor had a huge ass aggressive dog that got through the fence and went after my dogs once. I had to separate them. The older dog ended up with a hole in her leg protecting the puppy - Still has the scar. *NEVER* were ears attacked during the encounter, but emotional and mood cues were read. I find your evidence lacking.
 

Lanx

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Honestly i think the main reason pitbulls get their ears docked is cuz retard michael vicks think it looks cool. It "might" have served a purpose for less skin to grab (i've seen this excuse used on docs) or the difficult to read, but retards just think it looks cool.

Sorta like how prisons had all these idiots wear their pants low on their ass, they brought this fashion sense back with them when they were released and now everyone thinks it's cool.

docked vs. undocked btw.
rrr_img_97357.jpg
 

iannis

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Does anyone else think it's weird that shelters use the word "destroy" like this? It's like in an effort not to just use the word kill, they make it sound way fucking worse.
Yeah, that's always struck me as being odd.

I had one of the most difficult conversations with a no-kill shelter lady recently. I mean she's obviously a sweetheart and pouring a lot of money into trying to mitigate the strays/abandoned animals issue. But when you're talking about potentially killing a few you have to be very careful in how you even approach that. "Destroy" makes it sound a little more clinical, I guess. Maybe for her "destroy" actually would be less bad than "kill". It's probably better than me bumlbing around with, "Well. I mean. You know. You do know, right?"
 

Palum

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Well you don't kill property, right? Maybe it's more of a legal distinction.