Politics Thread

fanaskin

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but because they paid into what amounts to a collective old-age-insurance policy their entire working lives.
Yeah well the reality is

There's no fund it's a ponzi scheme that works because old people die off and not everyone is paid. We're entering an epoch never before seen in world history where the majority of people in society will be old.

People are living longer and collecting more while the ratio of workers to retiree's keeps dropping
 
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Tuco

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So where are all points in that artical suppose to be bad things? I got a boner at every bullet point that helped prevent illegal aliens from shithole countries from coming here. Also can we stop calling these illegals "Dreamers" the only thing these people dream of is owning a taco truck or mowing lawns and siphoning money out of the US down to El Mexico.
Exactly. Call your congressmen.
 

OU Ariakas

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Calling it a ponzi scheme is disingenuous. I didn't read the rest of your post.
Haha, ok bro. What do you call an investment that takes money from a large group of people and hands it directly to a smaller group of people with the promise of payments to the current payers in the future?

The worst part is that SS was never set up for actual money going into investment vehicles to sustain and grow it into the future; instead during the health years they took the money and spent it on other shit with no terms of repayment, let alone repayment with interest. If it weren't a government run program the entire thing would be labeled a Ponzi scheme and the owners would go to jail.
 

James

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A Ponzi scheme by definition won't be funded after a certain point. Social Security is still funded quite easily.
 

Tuco

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Haha, ok bro. What do you call an investment that takes money from a large group of people and hands it directly to a smaller group of people with the promise of payments to the current payers in the future?
In this context, a social safety net.

To be a ponzi scheme It'd have to be a very small group of people who dupe others into believing in a false enterprise, exponentially expand the number of people involved in the scheme to generate wealth, then suddenly collect the vast majority of said funds in an illegal way that breaks contract and assumptions with the investors.

https://web.archive.org/web/20050306163502re_/http://www.ssa.gov:80/history/ponzi.html
 

fanaskin

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It's just math, people live longer, less people work in ratio to retiree's used to be like 10-1 now it's like 4-1, it's all wealth transfers, the "fund" just covers a tiny fraction of the payouts and it's basically all iou's at this point to begin with.
 

Xequecal

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Bullshit. You don't even pay taxes in USA until approximately $50k a year. At all. Assuming you take advantage of zero tax advantaged accounts.
The top 0.1%, the ones that have almost entirely capital gains and not actual "income," pay less of a percent of their income to taxes than the average person does in payroll taxes alone.
 

fanaskin

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The top 0.1%, the ones that have almost entirely capital gains and not actual "income," pay less of a percent of their income to taxes than the average person does in payroll taxes alone.
not to be too pro rich but they also create investment and growth where payroll doesn't
 

fanaskin

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Something is going to have to change, even if it's fiding other sources of revenue besides labour
 

OU Ariakas

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In this context, a social safety net.

To be a ponzi scheme It'd have to be a very small group of people who dupe others into believing in a false enterprise, exponentially expand the number of people involved in the scheme to generate wealth, then suddenly collect the vast majority of said funds in an illegal way that breaks contract and assumptions with the investors.

Is Social Security a Ponzi scheme?
A social safety net that has more in common with an actual Ponzi scheme than with a fiscally responsible investment program that the fucking U.S. government should be capable of producing. Fucking Canada Pension, the canuck social safety net, is set up like a proper investment that sends out a prospectus. It is overfunded and they are using the funds to, shockingly, invest to make sure that lean times are protected against.

If we are going to have a social safety net that transfers wealth why does it have to be the worst and least fiscally responsible way possible?
 

Xequecal

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actually Tuco it's fairly close to a ponzi scheme, the first generation of americans that got SS checks didn't pay for them, none of it is payed into, it's all wealth transfers. wealth transfers from workers to retiree's and that used to be a 10-1 ratio in the old days now it's closer to 4-1.

The only thing that keeps the scheme working is that people die as they get older.
The only way Social Security is necessarily a Ponzi scheme is if you start bringing the carrying capacity of the Earth into it. As long as you have population growth Social Security can be sustained forever.
 

Juvarisx

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Tuco

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Something is going to have to change, even if it's fiding other sources of revenue besides labour
Yep, something will change, and while I think SS will be there for me when I retire, I'm not making retirement dependent on it.

I think a ton of Americans my age are either not considering retirement, or assuming they'll be able to live on SS. To be fair, I think the people who need SS the most will be more likely to get it since they will probably increase means-testing of SS (and medicare).
 

Kiroy

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a very small group of people who dupe others into believing in a false enterprise, exponentially expand the number of people involved in the scheme to generate wealth, then suddenly collect the vast majority of said funds in an illegal way that breaks contract and assumptions with the investors.
lol what a great definition of progressives
 

Bandwagon

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Following all the blowback with CNN's coverage of little Kim's sister, I'm expecting frothing rage from this....