Site Ownership Outline

suineg

GOLDEN GOD
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Why am I posting this on a brand new account with no power on this forum? I told the moderators that I was stepping down and I meant it. I trust them and gave them the power that they need. Now we need to come up with a long term plan for extracting me from the ownership. Once that is done my account is removed from power and I can go back to posting on it.

This idea is slightly complicated and probably fairly revolutionary. We are going to be issuing out shares in an anonymous LLC that owns Fires of Heaven and all assets current and future. Here is what that is going to look like and we will see how people think about it and work up the feasibility. There will be some moving parts and I expect a ton of questions. Please ask them now because when the ball starts rolling it’s not stopping. This is a framework that I have been working on for a couple days, I unveiled it to the moderators yesterday and got a lot of questions and feedback and so this is edited after that discussion.

Problem: The community that we have right now is “owned” by a single entity that can do what they want with it and their stability is not guaranteed. This means that any moment the server can be shut down or everything sold to someone else that doesn’t care.

Solution: The community owns it via an LLC and depending on how many shares they have is how much their vote counts. This will only and I am stressing ONLY be the ownership of the assets and we will go into what that looks like. There are some delineations between the posting on the forum and the ownership of it. This means potentially a user that has never posted on the forum but just lurks can own shares or even a person that has been a long time poster and been banned can own shares but be cut off from the forum. This is going to be a tricky line that we are going to try and plan ahead for.

Concept: This is where I am going to outline how this all might work. This is a theoretical at this point and there are some moving parts and targets that need to be hit at the right time to make this all work. It’s going to be fun and messy at the same time, I am sure of it.

Assets – We need to outline what assets are currently owned and what might be owned and outline what comes from ownership of that. I will first list the assets.
  1. The domain name(s)
  2. The software licenses
  3. The data of the forum itself
  4. Access to the secondary accounts like email, twitter, AWS
  5. “Brand “
Some of these have worth only so much as they give access to the assets they control. There will be the need for future things of course and so there will be wording that extends the ownership to those eventualities as well. This will be helped by using a central email for creating accounts and things like that. The “brand” itself is a very ephemeral target that does have a worth but is hard to quantify. I would suggest that the new LLC take the time to do a trademark, I just didn’t want to do the paperwork myself and own it. My goal was always to get all of this into an LLC one day.

Value – The value of the things listed above is where some difficulty lies. Some of it is potentially worthless and other aspects have exact value that could be quite extensive in the future but might not be worth anything at all. That number will be hard to figure out. This number is going to be the initial “fundraising” target used to create the LLC.

Process – This is how this is all going to come together. There is going to be a smart contract put out with a target value. This is all going to happen in the cryptocurrency world. It’s easy and we will walk you through how to do it. The value decided on will be what is raised. Everyone that puts into that value will be anonymous due to the nature of how crypto works. Once the target is raised the shares will be issued out in direct proportion to the amount purchased. If the target is $30k and you buy $1k of the smart contract then you have 1/30th share of the entire forum. When it comes time to vote on things you have weight equal to that share. If you want to sell your shares to someone else you can do so.

I am looking at coins that have a lot of this process built in like VoteCoin which you can read about more right here: [ANN][VOT]: VoteCoin - a new era of anonymous crypto democracy If this works out some of the steps below won’t quite be necessary.

When the contract period is over and fully funded an “anonymous LLC” will be created in one of the following states: DE, NM, NV, or WY. A number will be assigned to each member with their shares given to that number. That number will be assigned an anonymous email address external to the forum so that no IP’s or real info can be logged. The password will be a portion of the transaction that only that person can know. They will log into that email and that will be how they communicate for any votes. If they don’t wish to stay anonymous they can elect to do so but there is no obligation to state user name or real name.

Way Forward: We need to feel out whether or not people are okay with the idea conceptually. We need to test out some of the moving parts of it. We need to come out with a value for the site itself. Any special circumstances need to be brought up so that they can be figured out ahead of time and language created to prepare for them.

Once concern that has been brought up and discussed with the moderators are some of the what-ifs about a person owning a large portion that does not have the best interest of the forum in mind. This is one of the pitfalls of having democracy and also the anonymity involved in this process. I have discussed multiple different scenarios that might play out and restrictions that could be implemented to try and ensure that no whales take over. I think that most of those end up alienating people and screwing this up. Two of the things that are being discussed is a staggered release of shares to slowly roll out the process and also presenting the final links to the posters with the most posts first or maybe donators first. Something to that effect maybe.

I want to be moving on this fairly quickly so we aren't going to sit here and dither back and forth nonstop over small details. Get to the point quickly and express your opinion concisely. If you have no issues maybe just read it and move on.
 

Tiggles

Resident Nationalist
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I think it's a great idea and I think we discussed this when this forum was created about turning it into an LLC.

What is the main reason of using crypto though and not do it normally?
 

Crisco

A greasy jar
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nice idea. I don't want ownership being a donor but feel most people with shares wouldn't burn the place down.
 

suineg

GOLDEN GOD
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What is the main reason of using crypto though and not do it normally?
Complete anonymity.

This is both so that the owners aren't doxxed or held hostage in any way and also so that the voting process is a little more pure and clean without some of the troll personalities involved.

We would walk everyone through the process and hold hands so people won't need to be well versed in it prior to this. They will buy in at the same time they get their coin so there won't be an issue of value dropping or things like that.
 

Tiggles

Resident Nationalist
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Complete anonymity.

This is both so that the owners aren't doxxed or held hostage in any way and also so that the voting process is a little more pure and clean without some of the troll personalities involved.

We would walk everyone through the process and hold hands so people won't need to be well versed in it prior to this. They will buy in at the same time they get their coin so there won't be an issue of value dropping or things like that.

Do you have an approximation of the value of the site?
 

suineg

GOLDEN GOD
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Do you have an approximation of the value of the site?
My framework that I am thinking on is $30k with all assets and an extra domain that I purchased and was going to spin off a politics only forum.
 
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Tuco

Janitor of the Realm
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I'm hugely in favor of this change and excited about it not just out of love for this community, but also as a fairly novel method to manage these kinds of large, tight-knit websites.

To me, the goal of this system is to spread ownership and control of the site to as many people as possible, such that many of the core members of the site, of which there are a few hundred, have a sizable portion of ownership. How that is accomplished while still being totally anonymous is a really tough question, and I, not knowing much about anonymous tech or business, haven't been able to come up with a good solution.

I know there's a number of people who deal in those spheres and I'm pretty interested to hear what you guys have to say about that challenge and the system in general.
 
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Sludig

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My question would be doing it in crypto, especially some random small coin.... What risks that presents if the forum essentially say had 30k in crypto, the coin does and then the money for hardware/upkeep is gone? Or say coin explodes for some reason, does that mean people can pull out get rich, or worse if there coin is paid into the forum.... Wallet? Or whatever, does that leave things open for it to be raised by an admin or something.

Hold me I'm scared.
 
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Tiggles

Resident Nationalist
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Will there be preferred shares? What if this forum manages to ever turn a profit? Dividends?

Are we buying the crypto from you or the corporate entity?
 

suineg

GOLDEN GOD
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My question would be doing it in crypto, especially some random small coin.... What risks that presents if the forum essentially say had 30k in crypto, the coin does and then the money for hardware/upkeep is gone? Or say coin explodes for some reason, does that mean people can pull out get rich, or worse if there coin is paid into the forum.... Wallet? Or whatever, does that leave things open for it to be raised by an admin or something.

Hold me I'm scared.
The community is "buying" the website essentially. It doesn't stay in that wallet, it's just there for anonymity of the startup.
 

suineg

GOLDEN GOD
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Can we get a tldr or at least a dumbed down version for stupid people like myself?
Site will have a time period where people can buy shares of it via crypt currency to be part owners so that nobody can sell it out from under us.
 
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suineg

GOLDEN GOD
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Will there be preferred shares? What if this forum manages to ever turn a profit? Dividends?

Are we buying the crypto from you or the corporate entity?
1. No
2 & 3. Everything to do with the finances will be up to the new owners (all of you) but some legal framework will be decided upon for minimum standards necessary to maintain
4. From my corp essentially is how it will go. The new LLC will buy everything from my LLC.
 

DickTrickle

Analrapist
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I guess I have three questions:

1) How would someone like Olscratch be prevented from buying all the shares?
2) If the $ target is met, does that mean people who weren't first won't get a share?
3) Someone ultimately will have to run the server. Under the LLC setup, if they bailed, we'd be able to sue to get the forum data back?

Apologies if these are simple questions I'm missing.
 

Tiggles

Resident Nationalist
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That's true, someone will have to actually run the server does that mean we have to hire Suineg? give him a salary?
 

a c i d.f l y

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As an LLC, are there plans to make or allow members to take on officer roles, such as President, VP, Treasury, Secretary?