The Lord of the Rings

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Does not apply.
She’s a horrible, poorly-written character and ultimately comes off as downright evil, to the point that I’d almost say Sauron is the hero of the show. It’s disgustingly indifferent to the source material, so I can get why people want to say bad things about her. Despite all that I really don’t understand why people would refer to her as a Mary Sue.
 
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j00t

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She’s a horrible, poorly-written character and ultimately comes off as downright evil, to the point that I’d almost say Sauron is the hero of the show. It’s disgustingly indifferent to the source material, so I can get why people want to say bad things about her. Despite all that I really don’t understand why people would refer to her as a Mary Sue.
YEARS ago i worked for a year at an inner city middle school in what was highly regarded as the poorest school district in the city. it was the first time i had ever heard the term "thot" and the kids said it ALL. THE. TIME. half the time they weren't even using it in the right context.

i think that's what happens whenever a new word or phrase enters the vernacular. some people just get overly fixated on using it as a pejorative and find any opportunity to do so. obviously the term "mary sue" has been around a long time, but you know, some people gotta fixate
 

Gavinmad

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She’s... ...downright evil, to the point that I’d almost say Sauron is the hero of the show.
Instead of arguing with you turds about the wildly inconsistent definition of Mary Sue, I'm just gonna go with this being the true story of Middle Earth. Sauron the Lightbringer wants men free to control their own destiny without interference from the machinations of indifferent immortals who care nothing for them.
 
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Caliane

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Man I wonder if a race of people who live FOREVER would live on a time scale that seems strange to people who rarely even make it to one hundred years old.
The fellowship of the Ring has a couple timeskips it doesn't sell very well.

Bilbo's 111th birthday is 3001. Gandolf gives the ring to Frodo, and leaves.
He returns in 3018, with "is it secret, is it safe?!"

It was 17 years. Frodo is 50, when they leave for Bree. I forget the exact editing atm, but it really doesn't explain how long that gap was.
 
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j00t

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The fellowship of the Ring has a couple timeskips it doesn't sell very well.

Bilbo's 111th birthday is 3001. Gandolf gives the ring to Frodo, and leaves.
He returns in 3018, with "is it secret, is it safe?!"

It was 17 years. Frodo is 50, when they leave for Bree. I forget the exact editing atm, but it really doesn't explain how long that gap was.
yeah, it makes it feel like it's not more than a few months really, but your right, it was a long time that he was gone. the movies portray the hobbits as basically young adults but they were grown men. bilbo celebrating his 111th birthday wasn't exactly unheard of it, but it was pretty rare. and then he lives like another some 40 years before going to the undying lands, maybe more i don't remember the timeline post scouring of the shire, just that they stuck around a while before departing.

you can KIND of tell there's a time jump somewhere between bilbo disappearing and frodo making it to rivendell because bilbo has aged significantly. but the movie almost implies that now that he doesn't have the ring keeping him young, he just ages super quick
 

Caliane

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Then they did a terrible job of translating it to the final cut. I can market a car that I'm building as the best red car ever made, but if I buy the wrong paint and it turns out blue, I guess my marketing was full of shit.

The likely reality is they did all that to rile up the vocal culture warriors well ahead of the release of the show, so when it was (rightly) panned for being poorly written, they had a prepackaged defense ready to deploy, that being: all of the critics are simply racist / sexist. Just look at what all the evil YouTubers said before they even watched it!



dictionary.com:

"Mary Sue is a term used to describe a fictional character, usually female, who is seen as too perfect and almost boring for lack of flaws, originally written as an idealized version of an author in fanfiction."

Does not apply.

wikipedia.com:

"Usually female and almost always the main character, a Mary Sue is often an author's idealized self-insertion, and may serve as a form of wish-fulfillment."

You'd have to be some sort of twisted weirdo for Galadriel's incarnation in this to be wish fulfillment.

tvtropes.com:

"This theory posits that a Mary Sue is an unrealistically capable and virtuous character, one who simply lacks flaws and is depicted in an overly positive light."

Does not apply.

grammarist.com:

"A Mary Sue is a character who has no weaknesses, who performs heroically and perfectly in every situation."

Does not apply.
these are wrong.

Those are largely describing Author inserts. which are not mary sue's. or, Author pets. which are also not mary sues. (welsey crusher) Traditionally, A mary sue is a fan insert character. Its characterized by having inexplicable knowledge on all topics, being overbearing, inserting themselves into original characters backstories, or main plot elements, with the plot bending around them, and other characters being inexplicably infatuated with them. everyone loves them. Anyone that disagrees with them is wrong, is humiliated and ends up coming to around to reckognizing the mary sue is perfect and never wrong.

now, obviously the definition has memed into variants. The primary first variant comes from IP's with multiple authors. no longer exclusive to fan fics, with multiple authors inserting characters into established IP, fan fics became canon. So, the label still applies, when some clown decides to add some stupid new character to Marvel, Starwars, DC comics, etc. Rey Palpetine, Punchline, Jokers daughter, etc.

Then that follows with, actual established characters morphing into mary sues. batman. As Batman himself is just fanfics now, being published by DC, with authors who fangirl out over writing him. this is what's happening her with Galadrial.

And, some will still label fully original characters in new ip mary sues. as well. imho, incorrectly when done so.
 

Gavinmad

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The fellowship of the Ring has a couple timeskips it doesn't sell very well.

Bilbo's 111th birthday is 3001. Gandolf gives the ring to Frodo, and leaves.
He returns in 3018, with "is it secret, is it safe?!"

It was 17 years. Frodo is 50, when they leave for Bree. I forget the exact editing atm, but it really doesn't explain how long that gap was.
The books were written before the internet so Gandalf had to figure out all the little steps of the quest himself. Movie Gandalf just looked up the Isildur's Diary shortcut on gamefaqs.
 
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Chris

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The fellowship of the Ring has a couple timeskips it doesn't sell very well.

Bilbo's 111th birthday is 3001. Gandolf gives the ring to Frodo, and leaves.
He returns in 3018, with "is it secret, is it safe?!"

It was 17 years. Frodo is 50, when they leave for Bree. I forget the exact editing atm, but it really doesn't explain how long that gap was.
It's a few months in the movie since nobody ages.
 

Caliane

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yeah, i was going to clarify that. in the books, its 17 years. in the movie, ??? who knows. theres no indication it's more then a few days/weeks.
 

BrutulTM

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these are wrong.

Those are largely describing Author inserts. which are not mary sue's. or, Author pets. which are also not mary sues. (welsey crusher) Traditionally, A mary sue is a fan insert character. Its characterized by having inexplicable knowledge on all topics, being overbearing, inserting themselves into original characters backstories, or main plot elements, with the plot bending around them, and other characters being inexplicably infatuated with them. everyone loves them. Anyone that disagrees with them is wrong, is humiliated and ends up coming to around to reckognizing the mary sue is perfect and never wrong.

now, obviously the definition has memed into variants. The primary first variant comes from IP's with multiple authors. no longer exclusive to fan fics, with multiple authors inserting characters into established IP, fan fics became canon. So, the label still applies, when some clown decides to add some stupid new character to Marvel, Starwars, DC comics, etc. Rey Palpetine, Punchline, Jokers daughter, etc.

Then that follows with, actual established characters morphing into mary sues. batman. As Batman himself is just fanfics now, being published by DC, with authors who fangirl out over writing him. this is what's happening her with Galadrial.

And, some will still label fully original characters in new ip mary sues. as well. imho, incorrectly when done so.
unimpressed morgan freeman GIF
 

stupidmonkey

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If the show runners intent was for me to hate almost every character on the 'good' side and root for Sauron and the 'bad' side to have their paradise then job well done.
 
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Penance

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I mean they aren't THAT bad by today's standards. The 3rd is the worst. I quite enjoyed the dragon and the dwarfs in the first and second
 
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Gavinmad

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I mean they aren't THAT bad by today's standards. The 3rd is the worst. I quite enjoyed the dragon and the dwarfs in the first and second
The second had both the retarded barrel scene and the ridiculous Smaug chase through Erebor didn't it?
 
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amigo

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As I said earlier,get the Maple edit of the Hobbit. It's all 3 movies merged into a 4h20 movie with most of the stupid cut out.
 
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Warpath

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The second had both the retarded barrel scene and the ridiculous Smaug chase through Erebor didn't it?
yes. 1st one was a disappointment coming off lotr trilogy. 2nd one just went full retard. after that i never bothered with the 3rd
 

Gavinmad

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Yeah the desolation of smaug is the worst of the hobbit movies by an extremely wide margin. I'd say its something like

Hobbit1...Hobbit3..........................................Hobbit2..................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................Rings of Power
 
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Penance

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I might be misremembering it. I do remember being pretty bored on the second one up until the dragon. However, thinking back after watching the 2nd one I never did care to go watch the third. Think I caught it like years after and fell asleep twice. I can't remember a single good thing from the third. Or did the third have the dragon in it? Fuck it.

Still Hobbit had a better Sauron story then ROP.