Transgender Facts vs. Fictions

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Vanessa

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Let's start with this article.

Thoughts?

The purpose of this thread is to separate what is genuine facts about the growing transgender climate in today's society versus what is merely fiction.

-edit- 10/16 If there was perhaps ONE link that I could give to people if they asked "what is fact about ALL of this?" Then I'd say HERE is a damn good start for the documentation and science of transgenderism.
 
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Lendarios

Potato del Grande
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Let's start with this article.

Thoughts?
Sounds like this Zucker guy is pretty reasonable and his approach to gender dysphoria kind of reflects what you've said about it. Paraphrasing and all but this guy seems to have believed and given treatment designed to avoid the need for transitioning gender if at all possible.

This is reasonable and echos what I remember you saying that if there was a way for you to have been happy as a man you would have taken it. Sorry if I misremembering that!

Anyway this dude got his comeuppance for trans bigotry by the especially woke gender theory loving cultists that fill up the Toronto/Canada government. Sucks to be him.
 

Vanessa

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Zucker actually has been for a mixed approach based on what I've read... that of, to quote from the first article I listed:

"The gender-affirmers have a key phrase: if a child is “insistent, persistent, and consistent” in signalling over an extended period that they were assigned the wrong gender at birth, that’s a strong indication they’re transgender."

I believe I read that he was for strong counseling and psychological assessment of children that exhibited these traits to TRY to get children to be comfortable in their own skin (so to speak) without a complete social and medical transition TO START WITH, but IF said child is insistent, persistent, and consistent, in their behavior that transition would then be the acceptable route of care.
 
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Vanessa

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From Zucker's Wiki:

"Since the mid-1970s, Zucker has treated about 500 preadolescent gender-variant children to have them accept the gender identity they were assigned at birth until they are at an age he believes they may determine their own gender identity.[12] Considerable disagreement exists between academic sex researchers, who say the sciences supports Zucker's approach, and activists who compare it to conversion therapy attempting to change gay men and lesbians into heterosexual men and women.

Zucker says he tries to encourage children to accept their birth sex and supports them in transitioning should they still experience gender dysphoria into adolescence.
"

The last sentence is what I agree with fully. I truly believe that the counseling during this CRUCIAL time between childhood to adolescence is key to the 20/80 dilemma that we as a forum have argued over for hundreds of pages in my old thread.
 
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ZyyzYzzy

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Fact. If you are born with a penis and a XY chromosome compliment you are a man, in both gender and sex.

Fact. If you are born with a vagina and a XX chromosome compliment you are a woman, in both gender and sex.

Fact. All the delusional things transgender individuals do will never change the first two facts.
 

Vanessa

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If it's that easy, why have a dichotomy of terms here:

Sex

Gender

You are calling an apple red red. in terms of both color and hue.

What is the distinction between Sex and Gender in your opinion Zyyz?
 
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Vanessa

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Rather, let me take the Steven Crowder approach and let's agree to definitions first, instead of saying distinction.

What is the DEFINITION we can agree on of what Sex is and what Gender is?
 
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Lanx

Golden Baron of the Realm
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Rather, let me take the Steven Crowder approach and let's agree to definitions first, instead of saying distinction.

What is the DEFINITION we can agree on of what Sex is and what Gender is?
gender was just a nice way to say "what is your sex", without sounding prude.

it's like saying, we're having pork for dinner and not saying, we're having pig for dinner, yup babe.

it's used to disassociate the meaning, so housewives can be in on the conversation w/o saying "heavens to betsy, oh my!!!"

it's like saying, we put the japs in internment camps while the jews got concentration camps.

gender, as a term arose b/c we're trying to be civil and not have little kids snivel when they see the word "SEX".

and now crazies have taken "gender" and repurposed it for their own nefarious deeds.
 

LiquidDeath

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Rather, let me take the Steven Crowder approach and let's agree to definitions first, instead of saying distinction.

What is the DEFINITION we can agree on of what Sex is and what Gender is?
I heard this recently and it is an opinion I'm starting to really get on board with. Gender as a concept relating to biology is inappropriate. The only biological species that even has a gender are humans, everything else is dealt entirely based on sex. That is because gender is a term that originated with language and is wholly inappropriate to describe the biological space.

Lithose Lithose has said it in the past, and far better than I ever could, but basically the correlation between sex and gender (as we use the term) is so high as to be causative. When the correlation is 99.4% it is just a fact. There is essentially no reason to even discuss gender as it relates to humans, because sex and gender are the same thing except for a minute number of people who have a genuine mental disorder. I have great sympathy for those people, as I can't imagine genuinely believing I was born into the wrong body and having no way to fix it. Instead of making the asinine move of imagining that sex and gender are different things in humans to cater to the delusion, though, we should be reinforcing that sex and gender are in fact the same thing. We should stop using gender as a term and allow trans people to get the help they need for their disorder by basing everything on sex.
 

Vanessa

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See, as a person comfortable admitting that I DO have a mental illness, the narrative of "get the help they need for their disorder" is totally okay with me. This is exactly what I did. I went to a shrink. I saw him for many many sessions, and here I am.

Perhaps many of you guys's issue that you take umbrage with is indeed with the "system" and not with trannies ourselves. Like, trust me, I'm game to say, "I'm a biological male. I have a mental illness called Gender Dysphoria. It sucks and I need help dealing with it". Saying that is not discomforting to ME personally, but it is to a lot of trannies in the world.

So the next step: You realize you need help. WHO do you go to? A doctor, right?

...that's..... um.... what I did.
 
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Bandwagon

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I'm game to say, "I'm a biological male. I have a mental illness called Gender Dysphoria. It sucks and I need help dealing with it". Saying that is not discomforting to ME personally
This is why I liked you when you first started posting here.

The aspects that irk me, and others, is the attention whoring, making your entire identity about being transgender, and your insistence that your opinion is truth and that we're just dumb/willfully ignorant for failing to share your opinion.

Have you ever had a friend that was really into something, like cards or yoga or motorcycles? Something that you don't really have any strong opinions about, or something that you might even have a mild interest in? How long did it take for you to get tired of every single fucking conversation with them taking a hard detour into their interest with some obscure segway, further cementing in your mind the fact that this friend has become a 1-trick pony? How do you think that situation plays out when the topic is something potentially controversial? I don't even talk to my neighbors anymore because every single fucking conversation turns into a conversation about their grandson and Karate.

That's you, Vanessa Vanessa . If you were this obsessive about how much you LOVE peanut butter and started writing long posts in every thread about peanut butter, it would be just as exhausting. Make an effort to go months without mentioning a single thing about transgenderism and try to reset your social reputation.
 

Lendarios

Potato del Grande
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Vanessa Vanessa this was argued in front of teh Supreme court this week. this is the lawyer opening statement

"Second, Harris Homes fired her for identifying as a woman only because she was assigned a male sex at birth. In doing so, it fired her for contravening a sex-specific expectation that applies only to people assigned male sex at birth; namely, that they live and identify as a man for their entire lives. That is disparate treatment on the basis of sex. "

Assigned?? really did someone took a baby said, you are male, and boom, a penis grew?
This type of language that comes from the tranny side is corrosive and deceiving.
 

Vanessa

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Pretty sure most people take umbrage with us having to change for them.
I feel exactly the same way. Making demands on people, ESPECIALLY that which impacts their freedom of speech... something that should be so inherent and basic to every person, is uncomfortable territory. This basic concept, to start, shouldn't be about right left black white gay straight tranny cis. Forcing people to use pronouns just to appease their feelings is wrong.

Make an effort to go months without mentioning a single thing about transgenderism
I will do my best here, I promise.

Understand, that this is what I do IRL too. People in the troll tranny thread RIGHT NOW are saying "why didn't you tell this person you were trans before they moved in with you?" It's an interesting conundrum. Don't talk about it over and over... we don't want to hear it repeatedly. Trust me, I got it, totally. But then, you form bonds and relationships with people and people will expect you to tell someone ASAP.

There is NO rule book for WHEN you tell people and WHY. Think about that for a second. I DON'T WANT it to be my primary identity either but because it is a biological reality, it cannot be ignored forever either. Especially for meeting new people!

You should post this in a tranny forum.
Been there, done that! I get banned LoL.

This type of language that comes from the tranny side is corrosive and deceiving.
I agree. Are you starting to see why I denounce the LGBTQWTF community myself?
 
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Lendarios

Potato del Grande
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I agree. Are you starting to see why I denounce the LGBTQWTF community myself?
So what are we discussing here? How your opinion is a total opposite of what the rest of those transgender people?

So what facts are we discussing? Why do we need yet another thread about piling on mainstream trannies?

ZyyzYzzy ZyyzYzzy can you name this thread more appropriately pls?
 
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Vanessa

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So what are we discussing here? How your opinion is a total opposite of what the rest of those transgender people?

So what facts are we discussing? Why do we need yet another thread about piling on mainstream trannies?

ZyyzYzzy ZyyzYzzy can you name this thread more appropriately pls?
Eh, it's still a bit more nuanced than that. I disagree with typical leftist tranny culture yes, but there is still not full agreement on EVERYTHING.

Whether you like it or not, the transgender issue is complex.

A gay man is basic. He's a dude... that likes dudes.
A lesbian is basic. She's a chick... that likes chicks.

ME as a tranny and Antifa Sue as a tranny are completely different animals (no pun intended atheists). But there's also a disagreement on how to handle the very VERY controversial topic of transgender people who are

a) in sports
b) very young

That is why this thread is this thread. Less troll work, more actual civil adult discussion on where we disagree because, call me crazy, but I feel like when people have dialogues and actually talk and listen to each other rationally instead of slinging poo at each other, understandings can be met.
 
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