Vanguard - I don't give a fuck if it's dead, It's still brown as fuck (Download link in 1st post)

Lunis

Lunis

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,256
1,484
The original VG combat was actually quite different than the launch version. It was far more reactive with less ability usage. They changed it in beta3 I think? They made combos proc on crits and there were far fewer reactive abilities.

It was an interesting idea they never got to fully flesh out b/c they had to switch publishers. Less ability spam on a longer gcd that proc'd off enemy attacks, but they did way more damage than your standard mmo ability. They used mtg as an inspiration where each gcd was akin to a turn in magic even though it was happening in real time. They ditched it though after they left Microsoft and were forced to finish the game in 6 months.
 
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
13,911
13,765
The original alpha and early beta game was too true to EQ for me. It just made me realize I didn't want something in the spirit of EQ as much. They ended up shifting the design direction 8 months before launch and basically creating the entire game in under 1 year after the Microsoft move.

No quests, no WoW stuff, no map, slower combat, punishing. It was too empty. I don't think it would have held an audience. The WoW-ified clone we got ended up kicking ass. It's been the only open world MMO for me that was competitive in fun that borrowed design inspiration from WoW. Every other WoW clone I've played had something seriously wrong with it. They had a shot in the dark with Vanguard and nailed it.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
13,911
13,765
I remember Brad sweating bullets on the forums regarding the game's new direction. About 8 months prior to launch. He felt betrayed by what was happening to Vanguard, and I remember him also admitting WoW was fun or something along those lines-- admitting to playing WoW and something along those lines. The pitchforks were everywhere. The pressure was tremendous. It's ancient history now and all so blurry. One thing we know for sure is there was a lot of internal strife to get Vanguard to ship.

He had to take a step back I remember and let someone else essentially take the reins. That's when the WoWification was rolled out and that's the Vanguard that shipped. It was still Brad's world, it just had it's guts rearranged into something that had mass appeal in the MMO marketplace.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
Lunis

Lunis

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,256
1,484
You're right it was slow.. maybe a bit too slow, but I would have liked to see what it could have turned into if they iterated on it more before going the WoW route. But I guess we'll never know.

Maybe I can summon E Elidroth to settle it. What was the internal discussion around the early combat design and how it was progressing vs what was intended? Was it unsalvageable or could it have been turned into something if you had full funding?
 
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
13,911
13,765
The WoWificiation of Vanguard was extremely controversial-- and as alluded, it is still is contentious all these years later. Fire and brimstone was being hurled from the sky at the time.

The community was split in "half" on whether it was a good or bad thing (I recall almost anyone interested in Vanguard from alpha absolutely lambasting the decision. VG followers were majority hateful towards WoW at the time and had mostly shunned it, creating some toxicity that stemmed from EQ loyalists versus early WoW adopters).

Ultimately, as you stated, we never got to see the original vision for Vanguard.
 
Locnar

Locnar

<Bronze Donator>
2,716
2,996
Even when it shipped it at least still had a lot of more hard core elements, but then EVERY patch they gutted the old school elements and systems and it became more wowified.

I could of lived with how it shipped, but the shit they pulled afterwards really was a shame. STILL I miss it and need it back. Dungeon crawling with the best in that game.

Silius or wtf his name was , was old school EQ public enemy #1 in those days.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users
ismaris

ismaris

Silver Knight of the Realm
498
28
Yeah, I'm all for trying to guerrilla warfare to get a crack at the DB. I might launch off on my own quest to see what I can do, which will probably amount to nothing, but will update the group if otherwise.
 
jayrebb

jayrebb

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
13,911
13,765
ismaris said:
Yeah, I'm all for trying to guerrilla warfare to get a crack at the DB. I might launch off on my own quest to see what I can do, which will probably amount to nothing, but will update the group if otherwise.
Click to expand...

At the end of the day-- money talks.

A decent LARP with the right approach might be able to get something like some consulting on combat systems, but it would be hell to get the entire DB without some tangible exchange taking place. This quest boss gives limited fucks about a project that isn't his. If he was a junior designer, he would "do it for the bros". He's not that type of guy.

Money is going to likely be the only thing that talks at the end of the day. Korrupt has 1,000 dollars up on it, if people in the existing community organized I'm sure that could reach 10,000.

And I don't see this quest boss turning down a 10k offer for all the files. While it's not life changing money, it's a luxury expense, a vacation, a little renovation on the house, and so forth.

Make no mistake this quest can be completed-- it's just a matter of the quest method. By the end of the quest, if no results are yielded by various LARPs, then the entire kitchen sink should be thrown at it and a drive to raise money should be organized to make a standing offer for the DB.
 
Kithani

Kithani

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,047
1,306
jayrebb said:
At the end of the day-- money talks.

A decent LARP with the right approach might be able to get something like some consulting on combat systems, but it would be hell to get the entire DB without some tangible exchange taking place. This quest boss gives limited fucks about a project that isn't his. If he was a junior designer, he would "do it for the bros". He's not that type of guy.

Money is going to likely be the only thing that talks at the end of the day. Korrupt has 1,000 dollars up on it, if people in the existing community organized I'm sure that could reach 10,000.

And I don't see this quest boss turning down a 10k offer for all the files. While it's not life changing money, it's a luxury expense, a vacation, a little renovation on the house, and so forth.

Make no mistake this quest can be completed-- it's just a matter of the quest method. By the end of the quest, if no results are yielded by various LARPs, then the entire kitchen sink should be thrown at it and a drive to raise money should be organized to make a standing offer for the DB.
Click to expand...
I look forward to reading the novelization of your MMO espionage
 
Kharzette

Kharzette

Watcher of Overs
4,917
3,564
"Get me an angle Chloe!", said Jack, as he watched the building from the shadows across the road.

"Got it! Sending to your PDA!", replied Chloe with a snort-giggle. Jack crossed the road watching the PDA to squeeze in between camera coverage. Reaching a side-maintenance-crawlway-airduct-service-panel he tried the code they guessed from the AI built psych profile of the head of security.

The AI revealed, beyond the foot fetish, that he was a troll-4-lyfe. Jack entered the date of the Grobb takeover and whispered "Never forget".

... BEEP! "I'm in"

to be continued...
 
  • 1Mother of God
  • 1Worf
Reactions: 1 users
Kithani

Kithani

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,047
1,306
1631707663269.gif
 
Pharone

Pharone

Trakanon Raider
1,136
1,006
Kharzette said:
"Get me an angle Chloe!", said Jack, as he watched the building from the shadows across the road.

"Got it! Sending to your PDA!", replied Chloe with a snort-giggle. Jack crossed the road watching the PDA to squeeze in between camera coverage. Reaching a side-maintenance-crawlway-airduct-service-panel he tried the code they guessed from the AI built psych profile of the head of security.

The AI revealed, beyond the foot fetish, that he was a troll-4-lyfe. Jack entered the date of the Grobb takeover and whispered "Never forget".

... BEEP! "I'm in"

to be continued...
Click to expand...
I still say that all trolls should have come together and raided Grobb every single day until the devs agreed to turn it back to a troll city.
 
  • 2Solidarity
Reactions: 1 users
You must log in or register to reply here.