Victoria 3 - Paradox

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sadris

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This just dropped. Hope its good but the entire studio has been going to shit over the past 3 years.
 
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Gask

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Based on the current state of CKIII I'd suggest playing the older versions instead.
 
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rhinohelix

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I have to look up when you say "older versions", do you mean Victoria 2, or an different Version of Victoria 3? Because that is my beef with Paradox right now: Game comes out, I get it, learn to play, enjoy it for 100-1000 hours, put it down, come back in 6 months to a year and its a whole new fucking game. EU4 might as well be a live service game as much DLC as they put out for it. And that's every one of their games these days. Leave well enough alone, ffs.
 
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Aaron

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Victoria 2 is probably one of the most interesting games out there. There's a reason why it has a cult following. And the mods that extend it are mostly very well made. That said, as mentioned above, one of the "good" things about V2 is that it is a complete game. As much as I love it I have just given up on the PDX model of DLCs every 6 months that completely rework a core aspect of the game.

Also, the dev diary says that War is not the focus of this game. That is to an extent true of V2 too, but I do hope they leave in the "end game mechanic" of a World War.
 
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sakkath

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Funny, I think it's a great thing that paradox keeps refining games, releasing new content and changing things to keep them fresh and interesting. I just finished playing with the latest Stellaris and Surviving Mars DLCs, need to get on to AOW:planetfall:Star Kings and the last few Cities Skylines DLCs sooner or later.
I don't know anything about the Victoria series but I watched Aspecs video about V3 and it sounds interesting.
 

rhinohelix

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Funny, I think it's a great thing that paradox keeps refining games, releasing new content and changing things to keep them fresh and interesting. I just finished playing with the latest Stellaris and Surviving Mars DLCs, need to get on to AOW:planetfall:Star Kings and the last few Cities Skylines DLCs sooner or later.
I don't know anything about the Victoria series but I watched Aspecs video about V3 and it sounds interesting.
You know how other companies do that? Releasing new games. When did EU4 come out? 13 August 2013. Why has there been 40 DLCs and no EU5? Just kidding, its actually 45 DLCs but I think its 10 major expansions. Because people keep buying DLCs that keep radically revising the systems. I have 897.3 hours played in EU4 according to Steam. most of that in the first two or three years. I loved EU4 Since then, whenever I go back to it, so much has changed I have to watch videos on youtube. Literally almost every.single.system. has changed. I don't want to keep learning how to play the game from scratch, nor do I want to keep playing it like Destiny 2; its a game, not a hobby in and of itself.

That's OK to do once or twice with expansions I guess but a single game over 8 years? For an OS, I guess sure but EU4 isn't Windows 10. Stellaris is the same way, although I jumped off that train when I saw it leaving the station. It was fun the first time but you won't EU4 me again; I don't even recognize the conversations around the game and I spent a fair amount of time playing it as well.
 
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Kirun

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You know how other companies do that? Releasing new games. When did EU4 come out? 13 August 2013. Why has there been 40 DLCs and no EU5? Just kidding, its actually 45 DLCs but I think its 10 major expansions. Because people keep buying DLCs that keep radically revising the systems. I have 897.3 hours played in EU4 according to Steam. most of that in the first two or three years. I loved EU4 Since then, whenever I go back to it, so much has changed I have to watch videos on youtube. Literally almost every.single.system. has changed. I don't want to keep learning how to play the game from scratch, nor do I want to keep playing it like Destiny 2; its a game, not a hobby in and of itself.

That's OK to do once or twice with expansions I guess but a single game over 8 years? For an OS, I guess sure but EU4 isn't Windows 10. Stellaris is the same way, although I jumped off that train when I saw it leaving the station. It was fun the first time but you won't EU4 me again; I don't even recognize the conversations around the game and I spent a fair amount of time playing it as well.
Eh, I don't mind the idea of returning to a game every year or two and finding a ton of new shit to discover. It's one of my favorite things about Stellaris honestly. It sucks in that graphically, the game starts to seem dated, but I like the idea of system changes, meta shifts, etc.

I think anything on a longer than 5 year cycle really needs to consider consolidating DLC ideas into an actual sequel, but it's far cheaper to not have to develop new art assets/engines, so I get it.
 

sakkath

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You know how other companies do that? Releasing new games.
I don't think other companies do that. What company has released a new 4X game every 5 years? Stellaris is 5 years old and has been revamped so many times, it may as well have been new games. Since Stellaris they also released CK3 and Planetfall. In my opinion Paradox are one of the good ones.
 

Caliane

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I don't think other companies do that. What company has released a new 4X game every 5 years? Stellaris is 5 years old and has been revamped so many times, it may as well have been new games. Since Stellaris they also released CK3 and Planetfall. In my opinion Paradox are one of the good ones.
Amplitude?
2012 Endless space
2014 Endless Legend
2017 Endless space 2.
2021 Humankind incoming.
 

sakkath

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Right, thats great, but still far fewer than paradox has released in the same period.
 

rhinohelix

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I don't think other companies do that. What company has released a new 4X game every 5 years? Stellaris is 5 years old and has been revamped so many times, it may as well have been new games....
This is exactly my point. It may as well have been a new game. I cannot go back to the Stellaris I spent 150+ hours on and recognize the game today. I don't want to have to keep learning how to play the same fucking game. So I don't. Which kind of sucks for me. I am sure it makes them a boatload of money and for those people with 3000+ hours into it, I am sure its great. I have gone back to EU4 multiple times and relearned it but fuck them I am not going to keep spending hours picking the game back up and getting back up to speed just to have to do it again and again. No Paradox game is for those who want to casually pick up a game and play; this is like double indemnity.
 

sakkath

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Yeah I get it, I just think it's a positive attribute and you don't. I mean my favourite game of the last few years is Oxygen Not Included, and the expansion Klei released for that late last year changed the base game even more than any paradox DLC, and I think it's wonderful.

There are paradox games which are relatively unchanged through DLC/expansion. Cities Skylines, Surviving Mars just had extra systems added on top, but the base systems are mostly unchanged. AOW:planetfall DLC doesn't change the base game at all.
 
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Kaines

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Yeah I get it, I just think it's a positive attribute and you don't. I mean my favourite game of the last few years is Oxygen Not Included, and the expansion Klei released for that late last year changed the base game even more than any paradox DLC, and I think it's wonderful.

There are paradox games which are relatively unchanged through DLC/expansion. Cities Skylines, Surviving Mars just had extra systems added on top, but the base systems are mostly unchanged. AOW:planetfall DLC doesn't change the base game at all.
There is a difference between Paradox published games and Paradox Studio games. The published games are made by outside developers and have their own revenue strategies. The Paradox Studio games are all following the CK2 DLC model. EU4 has just put it on steroids. That said, looks like my pocketbook is going to take another $20 hit every so often with Vicky 3.
 
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faille

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This is exactly my point. It may as well have been a new game. I cannot go back to the Stellaris I spent 150+ hours on and recognize the game today. I don't want to have to keep learning how to play the same fucking game. So I don't. Which kind of sucks for me. I am sure it makes them a boatload of money and for those people with 3000+ hours into it, I am sure its great. I have gone back to EU4 multiple times and relearned it but fuck them I am not going to keep spending hours picking the game back up and getting back up to speed just to have to do it again and again. No Paradox game is for those who want to casually pick up a game and play; this is like double indemnity.
turn off auto updates, or revert to the version of the game you like.
problem solved.
 
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Kaines

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Bought it played it. Will likely shelve it for awhile due to the following. YMMV

This is not Victoria 3. This is a completely different approach to "grand strategy games" on a fundamental level. They could have just started an entirely new franchise given the differences in fundamental design between this and Victoria 2.

War has been so dumbed down to being almost pointless. Armies teleport across the world with completely unrealistic travel times. There aren't even units in the map. Just "front lines" where you can assign divisions and all the fighting is simulated across the entire front. Maneuvering armies across the map is completely gone.

The PDX wokeness is full frontal in this game. To the point that all nations regardless of culture or geographic location all play the same. There is absolutely no flavor at all in the choice of nation to play. All in the name of "equality"
 
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Aaron

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This is from one of the announcement videos from a year ago, timestamped, where they explicitly state that the aim of the game was NOT war, but to be able to play the entire game without going to war.

 
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Kaines

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This is from one of the announcement videos from a year ago, timestamped, where they explicitly state that the aim of the game was NOT war, but to be able to play the entire game without going to war.

Being able to play without going to war is far different than war being completely pointless.