38 studios Auction Nov 14th and 15th.

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,776
8,260
The RI officials who bungled this are fucking retarded. Even if the game was absolute garbage, the genre is big enough now that there are hundreds of thousands of people who will just buy every MMO released and play for at least the free month. Their investment would have been recovered on box sales alone.
 

Cantatus

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,437
79
What he and R.I. still doesn't understand is that allowing 38 studios to restructure their debt, and help them secure additional funding to finish this abortion would have been the best way to recoup the investment. They (R.I.) are still totally delusional as to how much money they are going to make off the IP sale. Almost as delusional as the 38 management were in running their studio.

The restructuring could and should have come with new terms to oversee production by an experienced 3rd party developer and a renegotiation of profits until the debts are secured.
I was going to remark that this just shows how unprepared RI was with bringing game development to the state, but it's not like this was the first business they ever dealt with. There had to have been some better examples of how to handle this or at least some people they could hire with the proper know-how. Considering the whole point of the loan was to attract tech jobs to RI, their primary focus should've been doing what they could to retain those jobs. Instead, all they are going to have to show for this colossal bungling is the pittance they're going to get from this auction, and I look forward to seeing how they justify that to their constituents.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
That was the real issue, the former governor who greenlighted this needed someone state-side who understood the market and business they were getting involved in and they didn't. It reeked of ignorance from day 1 because no one understood how MMOs and game companies work and I think they just took Schillings word on everything.

Oh well.
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
2,739
1,279
The RI officials who bungled this are fucking retarded. Even if the game was absolute garbage, the genre is big enough now that there are hundreds of thousands of people who will just buy every MMO released and play for at least the free month. Their investment would have been recovered on box sales alone.
No, they did the right thing.

I highly, highly doubt they would have recovered even the money needed to finish the project (and really who knows how much that would be). I also am extremely skeptical there was any significant private funding, Curt was just making excuses to shift the blame to Chafee for his colossal mistakes (he is Republican after all).
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,776
8,260
No, they did the right thing.

I highly, highly doubt they would have recovered even the money needed to finish the project (and really who knows how much that would be). I also am extremely skeptical there was any significant private funding, Curt was just making excuses to shift the blame to Chafee for his colossal mistakes (he is Republican after all).
Dude... 75mil is a joke in MMO land. Even if RI dropped 200mil on it by the end, that shit would have been paid back within the year.
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
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Dude... 75mil is a joke in MMO land. Even if RI dropped 200mil on it by the end, that shit would have been paid back within the year.
rrr_img_45884.jpg
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
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8,260
No, I'm not fucking stupid, and I'm not trolling. Even after many dismal reviews (and a few favorable ones) KoA sold 1.2 million+ copies. There was strength in the IP. It was incredibly foolish to not allow this game to be finished.

I'm pretty sure CCP posted 66mil in revenue last year and that's only with 500k subscribers I think. I'd have to check the numbers to be certain.
 

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
No, I'm not fucking stupid, and I'm not trolling. Even after many dismal reviews (and a few favorable ones) KoA sold 1.2 million+ copies. There was strength in the IP. It was incredibly foolish to not allow this game to be finished.

I'm pretty sure CCP posted 66mil in revenue last year and that's only with 500k subscribers I think. I'd have to check the numbers to be certain.
They didn't make KOA though, they bought it. So thats not real confidence inspiring in regards to the MMO.
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
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No, I'm not fucking stupid, and I'm not trolling. Even after many dismal reviews (and a few favorable ones) KoA sold 1.2 million+ copies. There was strength in the IP. It was incredibly foolish to not allow this game to be finished.

I'm pretty sure CCP posted 66mil in revenue last year and that's only with 500k subscribers I think. I'd have to check the numbers to be certain.
I get that you don't understand the goal of the loan, and the concept of ROI, what opportunity cost is, and how MMORPG finances work, so I am going to lay it out for you.

Firstly, KoA:R is basically irrelevant in monetary terms to the MMORPG. It was a successful game, but they way overspent on it and from what everyone said even with good sales it didn't make its money back. So we will leave that out as the state's money was funding the MMO. What it did was move the MMO IP along and for that reason I'll use more optimistic numbers than I would otherwise.

Secondly, here was the goal of the loan. The goal was to bring 450 high tech well paying jobs to the state for $75 Million. This works out to roughly $166,667 per job. Assuming these are nice paying jobs (that is the stated goal after all) at an average of $60k each, the theoretical ROI for the state in economic activity is break even at 2.7 seven years.

This is the baseline expected ROI, break even at 2.7 years. That isn't terrible, but not longer than most private companies would like (2 years is more ideal) but you know it is state money and the governmentshouldfund things that have more long term growth potential than private industry would, it is part of what the government does better. I am going to use this as the baseline from now on to establish why the state of RI did the right thing.

I am going to use wildly optimistic numbers that heavily favor 38 so that you can't come back and say "nuh-uh, ur #s r bad".

38 only ever actually hired 200 people, so the actual cost per job turned out to be a much higher $375k per job which bumped the break even date out to a staggering 6.25 years. This is doing 38 the unheard of favor of assuming it will retain all of its gigantic 200 person team post launch of an MMORPG (never happens). So even before things went bad the state already got dicked over.

200 people using an industry standard number of $10.5k per person per month their burn rate is $25.2 million a year. This matches what we know so it is same to assume they had a dead average industry cost per person.

KoA:R sold well, so we will also assume that the MMORPG will also do well and sell a million copies. After paying publishers and distributors 38 we'll assume 38 will end up with a high number like 60% of the cost of each box. So, box sales could recoup about $30 million. We are going to be ridiculously generous and assume 1st year average churn is a ridiculously low 50%. That is, KoA will average out to having half the people who bough a box pay for a full year of fees at full price. We will assume a similar extremely optimistic year 2 and year 3 churn. That means the subscriber numbers look like this:

Net Revenue
Year 1: 500,000 (Subscribers) * 11 (Months) * 15(Revenue) 8 * 0.6 (% Profit) = $49.5 Million
Year 2: 250,000 * 12 * 15 * 0.6 = $27 Million
Year 3: 125,000 * 12 * 15 * 0.6 = $13.5 Million

Looks great, right? Wrong. As you see, by year 2 with 200 people 38 is only slightly in the black and by year 3 it costs twice as much to run the studio as it makes is net revenue (that is the price f the good - its cost). So, by year 3 38 will have to lay off staff.

Assuming they just barely keep enough people around to stay in the black (also silly), they are down to 100 people by the beginning of year 3. Now what is the state's break even date for economic activity generated by jobs? If 38 maintained a very good 125k subscribers and maintained staffing levels for the entire time that bumps the break even date out to 10.5 years. In this incredibly and unrealistically optimistic scenario the State of RI is SIGNIFICANTLY better off taking that 25 million and either paying off half the defaulted loan with it or investing it elsewhere.

That is all, of course, assuming 38 is telling the truth and in only a single year it would be in a state finished and polished enough to sell well and retain a very good number of subscribers. What do you think the chances of that are? If I really wanted to I could ALSO make a Bayesian inference and figure out the probability that the game would be delayed another year, then 2 and so on. If I spent all day I could actually crunch the numbers and present to you a hard analysis about the expected RoIs based on % chances of success and also present the alternatives,do you think the people working for Chafee didn't do this?. Without doing that and looking at this extremely simple approximation I can already tell it won't turn out well for 38.

They did the right thing.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,776
8,260
Maybe he thought KoA would have had 10 million subs from day one
rolleyes.png
Nah, but given the recent performance of similar products, I'm assuming at least 1 million box sales. Hell, I think GW2 pumped out 3 million boxes in under a year.
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
2,739
1,279
Nah, but given the recent performance of similar products, I'm assuming at least 1 million box sales. Hell, I think GW2 pumped out 3 million boxes in under a year.
So both?

The state wouldnothave benefited by how much money 38 Studios made. The only thing that matters is how much economic activity the business would generate for the state through staffing levels over time. That is the all.

So what you have to do is figure out how many people 38 can pay and for how long to determine whether or not that extra 25 million was just pissing into the wind. The answer is so mind-blowingly obvious I can only assume you've had some recent head trauma.

Wear a helmet next time.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,776
8,260
Is there a reason you continually feel the need to insult everyone you converse with without provocation? You okay, man?

Btw, I noticed you applied a 60% profit calculation to subscription fees, as well as box sales, for some unknown reason. The box I get, but why the sub fees? Based on what?
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
2,739
1,279
Is there a reason you continually feel the need to insult everyone you converse with without provocation? You okay, man?
Not everyone, just people that deserve it. I'm ok, I enjoy trying to be funny when I write, sometimes it works usually it doesn't.
 

Miele

Lord Nagafen Raider
916
48
Is there a reason you continually feel the need to insult everyone you converse with without provocation? You okay, man?

Btw, I noticed you applied a 60% profit calculation to subscription fees, as well as box sales, for some unknown reason. The box I get, but why the sub fees? Based on what?
I suspect covering costs and taxes.
 

Denaut

Trump's Staff
2,739
1,279
I suspect covering costs and taxes.
Yep. It varies, but server, hosting, bandwidth and other infrastructure costs around about $6 per person on average, which means out of a $15 dollar fee you make about $9 (60%) to cover everything else.