AI Image Generation
- Thread starter Captain Suave
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Bandwagon
Kolohe
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Mist
REEEEeyore
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Every generation does this, tries to make some metaphor to the technology of the time. It's always hilariously incomplete.
Given all the evidence, Occam's Razor leads to one conclusion: they've built an extremely expensive plagiarism engine. The 'one clever trick' is that it feeds our own bullshit back to us, and never comes up with anything creative at all. We know this can't be how the human brain works, because the human brain is many orders of magnitude worse at remembering what it reads and sees, and almost infinitely better and more efficient at generalizing from small amounts of data. For instance, my previous example of dogs vs cats, a child only needs to see a few pictures of dogs and cats to be able to tell the difference between dogs and cats, where a deep learning algorithm needs to see millions.
Bandwagon
Kolohe
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Your brain is busted when it comes to this topic.
You're not critiquing a final product. It's an evolutionary step.
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Mist
REEEEeyore
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I'm critiquing a current product, that they are charging money for, that is plagiarizing other people's work and passing it off as their own. Yes, it is possible to train these models without doing that. Adobe has proven you can do that rather easily. OpenAI and Midjourney chose to steal, because stealing got them to profitability faster. We have the chat logs.
(...and it was apparently built with a lot of Cheese Pizza.)
I promise that I am thinking about this correctly, and you are wrong.
Bandwagon
Kolohe
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Wow, what a rare and unique violation of the law and social norms. I'm sure this revelation is going to cause the whole house of cards to crumble and you're going to be proven right when every company that engaged in "theft" to train their models crumbles to dust and disappears out of existence.
Or, alternatively, the freight train keeps roaring down the track as it did before, with a couple toll booths along the way. All your complaints will be left behind like a fart in the wind when the outcome of their thievery allows them to take the next evolutionary step that renders it all moot anyways, paying inconsequential fines along the way.
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Bandwagon
Kolohe
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Who fucking cares? You're not stopping it. I honestly don't give a shit about it stealing the work of artists.
Medics don't get to collect a portion of the wages that someone who's life they saved gets paid after an incident. Mechanics don't get a daily kickback for every car they keep running every day. I don't give a shit about artists collecting fees in perpetuity for their scribbles.
you've made your point. Nobody disagrees by and large. We just don't care and don't want to listen to you howling at the moon for 2 years about it.
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Mist
REEEEeyore
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Why are you okay with humanity's future being stolen by hyperwoke SF polyamorous CP aficionados? Shouldn't this be everything you people are against?
I don't fucking understand you people. I haven't seen so many people arguing for their own enslavement since the Bolsheviks.
So you're admitting I'm right, but you don't care because someone gave you a shiny new toy to play with. Toddler-level thinking.
Bandwagon
Kolohe
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Half right at least. I'm not accepting it because I got a toy in the process. I just acknowledge this stuff is a juggernaut that's not going to be slowed down just because some misanthropic nerd on a message board is opposed to it. What I object to is your gotchas! It's the equivalent of the Kraken being released in 2 more weeks, at which point everyone still goes home with blue balls.
The issues you are bringing up, valid as they may be, will ultimately mean fuck all.
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Captain Suave
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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Jesus. You're not going to score more points by getting more and more histrionic about this.
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Mist
REEEEeyore
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Yes. If you haven't been paying attention the past 15 years or so, this is all humanity listens to anymore.
Next, it'll be a fancy mass surveillance machine, then a fancy thought manipulation machine.
This technology produces no new ideas. It can only be used for two things:
Fake and/or Gay.
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Captain Suave
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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No, it's just training us to tune you out.
This new wannabe alt-right version of you isn't as entertaining as when you were roleplaying the last liberal standing on the board.
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Mist
REEEEeyore
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Not alt-right but definitely clownpilled and arguably always blackpilled.
And SF 'effective altruist' tech weirdos are the new 'The Jews.' We don't need another 'The Jews' controlling everything, we've already got 'The Jews.'
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Bandwagon
Kolohe
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You think catching them with some sort of IP/copyright violation is going to stop it? China has been stealing our shit for decades and selling it back to us. We know that. Why hasn't it stopped? Because the people who's job it is to stop it are bribed not to.
There's too much money on the table with this stuff. You're not going to stop it with some kind of copyright class action lawsuit. At most you'll get a speed bump that diminishes the usefulness of it to us plebs, but maintains the full theft-fueled functionality for the exact people you're saying shouldnt have that level of power and control.
TL;Dr - Copyright shit isn't going to bring down this monster. Too much money in too many nations is already involved. You need something on the scale and scope of the Butlerian Jihad.
Chris
Potato del Grande
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AI just threatens people who do repetitive derivative work, it can't create anything new.
Turns out that artists are in that group and they are pissed because they thought they would be safe. Fuck them.
Why are you with these people?
Mist
REEEEeyore
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If we're gonna have one, it's gotta start somewhere. Jihad early and often.
I'm gonna start another thread, but my basic thesis is that most of the shit that's come out of these SF weirdos has made life worse.
Tech that has actually improved my life since the 90s:
Having a map and the ability to call 911 anywhere I go.
A few really sweet video games, but mostly just unending shit.
Having obscure tech parts/cables delivered next-day instead of having to go to some shithole like Radio Shack and then have them not have it anyway.
Jury is still out on WFH.
That's about it.
The fact that it's making a bunch of hyper-derivative DeviantArt furry degen artists cry because it does exactly what they were already doing IS funny. But I think that it has the ability to devalue all art and that's actually incredibly bad for humanity.
They will run all the real creators out of business, then feed you garbage and poison. It is exactly what big corpos did to food. Why let that happen again?
Captain Suave
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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Yeah, I don't see hordes lining up to protect radiologists and paralegals. This is just collective surprise that automation came for the "creative" stuff first.\
I'll fight to the death on that one. Fuck commuting.
Palum
what Suineg set it to
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Is it that surprising though? Radiologists and paralegals both have to use some amount of judgment and experience or make decisions across multiple domains that are all expensive to automate collectively. People making generic art, which is the vast majority of the professional space, are simply generating images which is one task.
I think people conflated the pay with the complexity which is clearly not reality. The reason people who put in three parts on an assembly line were replaceable was really because the rest of the process was already tightly controlled and their tasks were one dimensional.
The guy who has to drive a garbage truck down tight alleys and pick up any variation of items is much less likely to be replaced than the workers at a million dollar marketing firm that produces a few SVGs based on narrow descriptive inputs.
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Captain Suave
Caesar si viveret, ad remum dareris.
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I just meant that AI can already analyze X-rays and MRIs better than human specialists and no one much blinked. IMO this uproar is more about how 100 years of scifi primed us to expect AI to be calculating and logical, when that's actually what this seems to be worst at. Art is "human" and people are reacting viscerally to the intrusion into what they thought was a safe space.
Mist
REEEEeyore
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The more photorealistic Midjourney stuff doesn't bother me in the slightest, because it's not pretending to be expressive or evocative art. The closer to photography it gets, the more it becomes clearly its own thing. Then again, the closer to photography it gets, the more likely it is to be used for disinformation, scamming, or other sorts of crime, but that's a totally different and much funnier problem.
It's when it blatantly rips off copyrighted imagery and the artistic styles of real artists that I think it's a problem. And they could literally tell it not to do that using plain English pre-processing instructions.
It's when it blatantly rips off copyrighted imagery and the artistic styles of real artists that I think it's a problem. And they could literally tell it not to do that using plain English pre-processing instructions.