Home Theater/Game Room Thread

That's the before picture.

This is after.

Are all of those speakers going in the same room?

Just like normal theaters, his speaker setup is meant to shatter your eardrum during the THX logo so that you can't hear dialogue and think the movie is better than it really is.

Attog, those look strikingly similar to the Elusive 1099 kit from DIYsoundgroup. I bought a bunch of mfw-15 woofers from Erich a few years ago, was a stand up guy to deal with. Have you ever heard waveguide speakers before? If not your in for a real treat. The FR seems to break up a bit at 16k, do you intend to use any DSP or room correction to shift the upper end down a few dB?

Such a nice HT room, why not get some quality speakers instead of a DIY mishmash?

My HT setup:

TV =Samsung 9000 Series Smart TV
AV Receiver =9.2 A/V Receiver, Surround Sound | AVR-4311CI | Denon

Fronts =Paradigm | Signature S8 | Overview
Center =Paradigm | Signature C5 | Overview
Surrounds =Paradigm | Signature ADP3 | Overview
Sub =http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...igm_sub_25.htm

In the market for a dedicated amp setup. Emotiva looks like a bargain compared to offerings by Classe or McIntosh, etc.

Jysin,
Many of the DIY kits are better than multi thousand dollar setups. Most highend speakers are catered to the look good, exotic (untested and crappy) parts, and the, "its more expensive so it has to be better" crowd. They are often times designed by knowledgeable people who trust their ears and not engineers who test and measure appropriately. Many of the DIYSoungroup speakers with their SEOS waveguide have engineers who are also enthusiasts design and test each speaker design and produce real data plots such as phase, FR, impedance, and the very rare directivity patterns.

For example you're Paradigm S8 were measure by sound and vision ( not located anywhere on Paradigm's website) and appeared to do well. Here is a link to the measurements,Paradigm Reference Signature Speaker System Measurements | Sound Vision
A few gentle waves but the overall FR is mostly linear and straight, but at 10khz you can really tell that the tweeter isn't meshing well with the midrange and looses coherency. This very obvious when you stand anywhere but direct center of the speaker.

Compared to most Brick and Mortar stores they do well. But if we compare those measurements done by DIYsoundgroup for attog's speakers
Elusive 1099 Official Info Thread
We have a liquid smooth FR until 16khz and a bit of a drop off, this is probably due to the spacing of the waveguide and the 2 mid range transducers.

Now if we look at another speaker from DIYsoundgroup the Alpha minion we have an even better Frequency Plot than the 1099.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/catalog...42/image/1475/
This is due to being a simplier 2-way design where the woofer and compression driver (tweeter) are more coherent across the spectral band. The downside is that is is much less dynamic than the 1099, meaning it wont get as loud or immersive. Building speakers is all about trade offs, there is no perfect design.

Nice Rack attog!
The room looks awesome, I am very impressed! Those 1099's will light the place up for sure. What are you going to use for surrounds? Their Volt Coaxial options seem like a great idea for Dolby Atmos surround modules, but I think they sell out of parts for that quite frequently. For DSP have you look into any of the minidsp options? I've been reading great things on their 88A 8-channel DIRAC room correction box. It seems to do everything that the $20,000 audio processors are doing for $1,000.

Duratex is very nice, I coated my old kit subs with it and would use it again if I were to go the diy route.

As for myself my wife has downgraded my system until we build our house so I am living vicariously through others at the moment. My old Danley Sound Labs system was an absolute beastly setup but had to be parted out when we moved ( didn't want to risk putting it into storage). As for now I am using a stereo pair of JBL LSR308 waveguides and a Seaton Submersive. By all accounts its sublime and everyone but me loves it...... but it just doesn't have that dynamic realism that the Danley's had.

forin_sl said:

Jysin,
Many of the DIY kits are better than multi thousand dollar setups. Most highend speakers are catered to the look good, exotic (untested and crappy) parts, and the, "its more expensive so it has to be better" crowd. They are often times designed by knowledgeable people who trust their ears and not engineers who test and measure appropriately. Many of the DIYSoungroup speakers with their SEOS waveguide have engineers who are also enthusiasts design and test each speaker design and produce real data plots such as phase, FR, impedance, and the very rare directivity patterns.

Click to expand...

I do fully admit there is a point of diminishing returns and some manufacturers go way overboard in cost for aesthetic purposes. However, there are brands out there that throw a boat load of cash into R&D. "Exotic and untested crappy parts"? I find it extremely hard to believe DIY crowds are putting in more engineering than manufacturers like Paradigm or B&W.

About Paradigm

Paradigm's large and advanced facilities house extensive state-of-the-art R&D resources. These include the largest (33,000 cu. ft.) privately owned anechoic chamber, 2 dedicated double-blind screen listening rooms and a highly advanced proprietary speaker measurement system.

Click to expand...

Click any of the links on this page:Find out about our technology - Bowers & Wilkins | B&W Speakers

forin_sl said:

For example you're Paradigm S8 were measure by sound and vision ( not located anywhere on Paradigm's website) and appeared to do well. Here is a link to the measurements,Paradigm Reference Signature Speaker System Measurements | Sound Vision
A few gentle waves but the overall FR is mostly linear and straight, but at 10khz you can really tell that the tweeter isn't meshing well with the midrange and looses coherency. This very obvious when you stand anywhere but direct center of the speaker.

Click to expand...

I can't open the link here at work. Just curious which gen was this review? The Signature Version2 or Version3 (I forget) introduced a new Beryllium tweeter. According to Paradigm:"Elevating the new Beryllium dome promoted optimal off-axis dispersion."

forin_sl said:

Compared to most Brick and Mortar stores they do well. But if we compare those measurements done by DIYsoundgroup for attog's speakers
Elusive 1099 Official Info Thread
We have a liquid smooth FR until 16khz and a bit of a drop off, this is probably due to the spacing of the waveguide and the 2 mid range transducers.

Now if we look at another speaker from DIYsoundgroup the Alpha minion we have an even better Frequency Plot than the 1099.
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/catalog...42/image/1475/
This is due to being a simplier 2-way design where the woofer and compression driver (tweeter) are more coherent across the spectral band. The downside is that is is much less dynamic than the 1099, meaning it wont get as loud or immersive. Building speakers is all about trade offs, there is no perfect design.

Click to expand...

No doubt building DIY can yield some fantastic results, especially factoring in cost savings. I have yet to hear anything DIY come in the realm of my Paradigm setup or my friend's 2 Ch system with B&W 802s and Classe amp. My original comment to Attog was really meant as a compliment to his actual physical HT room. It looks spectacular! I was just sad to see the wizard behind the curtain. lol

Jysin,
I can see where my comment might of come off a bit harsh, which I didn't intend it to. I have listened to a few iterations of B&W 802 and have left wanting every time, considering their price. I heard them in a few high end stores, and twice in a Keith Yates spare no expense reference room ( he designs acoustic spaces for the richest of the rich). I will say both rooms sounded fantastic but I felt the B&W 800's they were using just couldn't keep up with the dynamics and sounded quite harsh when pushed to reference in action scenes.

I have heard a few hundred speakers but have not yet heard the Paradigm's yet, so I'd like to listen to them at least once. In regards to the version i think the chart I linked them from was from V2. I did intend to ask what version you had but forgot to when I was typing my post. I'll have to look around to find some V3 measurements because I was disappointed in the off axis measurements I did find, i'd like to see what differences the beryllium drivers made to it.

I dont want to come off as DIY is better, because it isnt. There are a number of excellent speaker manufactures out there that put in state of the art research and engineering into their products.

I do suggest trying to listen to a well made waveguide speaker. If you have time to one day go to a guitar center and listen to a pair of JBl LSR305, LSR308 mastering monitors. They are very cheap $150, $240 per speaker respectively. Stand back a few feet and make sure to toe them in so each tweeter is facing your opposite year, pick a high quality recording, close your eyes and listen. What you should hear is not the speaker but what was recorded on the track. Then listen to the same track on your Paradigms and tell me what you think.

It looks like those 1099's have been tested against some very high end speakers and pretty much spanked them. Those DIY kits appear to use pro audio gear that's been tuned for home use. They'd just be loafing along, even at high volumes.

Attog, do you have any recommendations on one to try out?

I wish I had time to put something like this together. I'm always impressed at the home theaters people put together at AVS.

I have a random question on audio..don't kill me... but a blind guy I knew used studio reference speakers for all his stuff...and well being blind and all I figure that he knows his hearing / sound stuff... His rationale was that these are the equipment / stuff that the studios use when mixing so why not use what they made the stuff on- they sure did sound nice - to me and my untrained ear. I pine for a theater room but do not have a dedicated room large enough to do this, but in my little old whatevers I was thinking of using studio reference speakers? is that just dumb?

xadion_sl said:

I have a random question on audio..don't kill me... but a blind guy I knew used studio reference speakers for all his stuff...and well being blind and all I figure that he knows his hearing / sound stuff... His rationale was that these are the equipment / stuff that the studios use when mixing so why not use what they made the stuff on- they sure did sound nice - to me and my untrained ear. I pine for a theater room but do not have a dedicated room large enough to do this, but in my little old whatevers I was thinking of using studio reference speakers? is that just dumb?

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Generally professional gear is held to a much higher standard than home speakers of any kind. These speakers need to be accurate and reliable for years and the contract prices are huge, so these companies have to provide the goods so to say. The first time i listened to mastering speakers for recording or high end concert speakers, they both blew away everything I heard for the home market. They will never look as nice, they aRE built for performance and not aesthetics, but if you can live with them they really cant be beat. Plus they are some times a few orders of magnitude cheaper for a better product than the home stuff.

The subwoofer market is a bit different than the speaker market. Surprisingly the true home theater subs from companies like Seaton sound, JTR, power sound audio, JL audio, are a few steps above the commercial/professional market. This is mostly due to the subs not having the need to play as low, inastead have to play much louder and require outboard dsp. Most of the higher end home subs have built in dsp which lend to a very flat and accurate response, whereas the professionals always tune the subs for their studio/venue and use outboard dsp, therefore these subs dont have the need to be as accurate.

attog_sl said:

Sorry Sledge you lost me, recommendations on what to try out? Other speakers?

Click to expand...

Yeh, I didn't explain that very well. I meant do you have any recommendations on which of those speaker kits to try out first?