IT/Software career thread: Invert binary trees for dollars.

Tuco

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Pretty much everything I'd say is covered in this thread.

I'd also like to add that being a generic programmer is fine out of college, I'd recommend trying many different fields of programming to see what you want to specialize in. There's hugely diverse fields that all need talented programmers to get shit done whether it's database, web, user interface, embedded work etc, along with different industries like finance, medical, automotive, robotics etc. It's impossible to not have any experience in anything and decide what is best for you, so I'd recommend trying out a bunch of stuff.
 

Tuco

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Program execution errors that only happen when you disable your debugging code and infrastructure QQ
 

Tenks

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Turn your debugger back on to slow the routine. This consultation will cost you $500k.
 

Cad

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If thats supposed to be a consumer thread getting stuff from a data queue thats populated asynchronously, then yea obviously you should check to make sure you got something from the data structure before attempting to operate on it. If you're making the assumption that you got something from the producer thread/queue (by not checking) then thats just bad programming
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Tip: If nothing is found (dataHolder.size == 0) sleep for a short period so you don't spam your logs full of shit, and your thread doesn't spin.
 

Tuco

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yeah I agree 100%. I was just pissed yesterday spending an hour tracking down a bug that occurred in a class that hasn't been touched in a year.
 

Black_Death

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Also, don't be afraid to job hop every couple years. More than likely that is going to give you the biggest jump in pay and there are not very many shitty jobs in the software engineering space these days because good devs are such a commodity. If you are treated like shit, leave. It's incredibly easy to find another job...especially if you have any social skills to speak of. One other thing is to jump to consulting as soon as you can to get exposed to a lot of different technologies, companies, and more variations in the types of projects you will do.

<- Graduated 10 years ago with a Math/Comp Sci Degree. Compensation started in the 40s. Now its in the 100s/200s.
 

Cad

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Or quit coding and go to law school like me.
 
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Cad

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Trading one of the best career choices for one of the worst, he obviously likes to run it hard mode.
Yes making 3X as much is clearly a handicap.

Being qualified to do IP law is ez mode
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Khane

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Yes making 3X as much is clearly a handicap.

Being qualified to do IP law is ez mode
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3x as much as who Cad? I mean yes, lawyers can be very well paid, but so can software developers.
 

TragedyAnn_sl

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Ok so I am also majoring in CS and I have friends who are self taught and basically tell me I'm wasting my money getting a 4 year CS degree from a university.

So I guess I am curious if they're right? What about these community colleges and their associates degrees in computer science?

Is it a matter of getting paid more with a 4 year degree?
 

Asshat wormie

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Ok so I am also majoring in CS and I have friends who are self taught and basically tell me I'm wasting my money getting a 4 year CS degree from a university.

So I guess I am curious if they're right? What about these community colleges and their associates degrees in computer science?

Is it a matter of getting paid more with a 4 year degree?
Its a matter of competing against people who do have a degree. An employer knows nothing about you when deciding to interview you. If his choice is some nobody with a degree and some nobody without a degree, guess who is going to get picked? Of course, if you have some projects that arent trivial and can be presented on your cv, you stop being a nobody.
 

Khane

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Ok so I am also majoring in CS and I have friends who are self taught and basically tell me I'm wasting my money getting a 4 year CS degree from a university.

So I guess I am curious if they're right? What about these community colleges and their associates degrees in computer science?

Is it a matter of getting paid more with a 4 year degree?
We had a lengthy discussion about this "Programming Bootcamps" thread. Everyone pretty much agrees you do not need a degree in the development field. Some people feel it's worthwhile to help break into the field and set yourself apart.

I am a software architect and hiring manager with 10 years experience in the field and I absolutely never look at the schooling section of a resume, it's completely irrelevant to me. But there certainly are some companies out there that require at least a BS in a development related study. In my personal opinion only large corporations who's hiring practices are dictated by the HR department instead of the software development department require a degree and those are companies I typically wouldn't want to work for.

In my opinion yes, you are wasting your time and money. You'd learn more, learn faster, and be able to specialize in something you truly enjoy if you taught yourself instead.
 

Tenks

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Ok so I am also majoring in CS and I have friends who are self taught and basically tell me I'm wasting my money getting a 4 year CS degree from a university.

So I guess I am curious if they're right? What about these community colleges and their associates degrees in computer science?

Is it a matter of getting paid more with a 4 year degree?
Are these people gainfully employed on solid career trajectories? It is possible, or should I say itwaspossible, to get a good job with no degree and just some basement code tinkering. I believe that day is mostly passed unless you're willing to gamble on working for a start up for peanuts. You still need to get your foot in the door at HR to even get your resume on someone's desk. You can't just say "I have experience. Trust me." with a few novelty apps and expect it to carry the same weight as a 4 year degree from a university. Sure once you're already in the field, have a job or three and worked on real world projects that have shipped it doesn't matter. Until you have those bullet points it means the world.
 

Khane

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Are these people gainfully employed on solid career trajectories? It is possible, or should I say itwaspossible, to get a good job with no degree and just some basement code tinkering. I believe that day is mostly passed unless you're willing to gamble on working for a start up for peanuts. You still need to get your foot in the door at HR to even get your resume on someone's desk. You can't just say "I have experience. Trust me." with a few novelty apps and expect it to carry the same weight as a 4 year degree from a university. Sure once you're already in the field, have a job or three and worked on real world projects that have shipped it doesn't matter. Until you have those bullet points it means the world.
I can assure you, plenty of non start up companies hire self taught developers every day of the week. My younger brother just got his first job in the field after teaching himself C#. He is making almost 80k/year.

It's fair to say a degree can help get your foot in the door but you can do side work and consulting gigs to get those projects on your resume. It's a lot easier than one may think to get real world experience while teaching yourself.
 

TragedyAnn_sl

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Hm ok, interesting. Thanks all.

One more question: if I were to start on the path of self-teaching, what exactly would I need to learn?
When I see jobs posted for "software programmer/analyst" what should the applicant have knowledge of? Does it depend?

I'm just frustrated with all the classes right now. I doubt I'll give up on the degree, but I WAS curious what the general consensus was regarding CS degrees.
so thanks for the info.

EDIT: NVM. found the bootcamps thread. thanks lol
 

Tuco

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Go find statistics for hire rates for 4yr degree holding programmers vs non-4yr degree programmers. I'd expect there's a massive disparity.

Even though there are a ton of successful self-taught programmers you're drastically cutting down your opportunities by not getting a four year degree. And even if you land a decent job, once you move on for that job that lack of a degree will still hurt you.
 

Hachima

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I just saw this today and thought it was relevant.

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Last month for me it was was Google and Amazon. The Amazon one was for a senior position and offered to fly me out to Seattle or Vegas to interview with them. The Google one specifically found me through my alma mater and had an interest in my current work. I went into it more in the bootcamp thread but a lot of large companies even limit to CS degrees from specific colleges. Before I listed off tech companies but even Walmart mentions a similar philosophy. A job similar to one I was being recruited for by Walmart a while agoSilicon Valley ECommerce Software Engineering jobs - Walmart Labs Senior Software Engineer Generalist at Walmart
lists 'BA/BS from a top school in Computer Science or a related technical discipline'

You can get a feel for the attitude some people out there have for self taught vs degrees atCoding Bootcamps Already 1/8th the Size of CS Undergraduates - Slashdot

As far as the lawyer comparison I'd say software development offers the opportunity to make it big at an entry level. Do new JDs have much of a chance at make partner/millions just a year or two out of school? My last job was at a startup and we received options at ~$1.50 . A major company bought us out and we could buy shares worth $100+ for ~$1.50 each. I know several people that made their first million and aren't even 30 yet... This isn't the norm and our team was mainly top graduates from a specific university.

As diverse as the jobs are that are out there for software development, so are the expectations those jobs have on peoples background .