Lumi's Batshit Insane Thread

hodj

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Thanks for making my point for me. Say hello to the 18th Century ya vaccine blowhard.



WHEN ENOUGH OF YOU RETARDS BECOME CONVINCED THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VACCINATE YOUR FUCKING KIDS BECAUSE YOU THINK IT IS DANGEROUS YOU WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE VACCINATED IN THE PUBLIC TO THE POINT THAT IT WILL BECOME THE 18TH CENTURY AGAIN YOU FUCKING MORON.

Also notice how he accused me of a "sourceless fact" and then when I proved to him that I was correct, he shifted goal posts and declared "Well that was the 1800s, thanks for proving my point!"

That is dishonest horseshit of the highest magnitude, an intentional non-sequitor to justify completely missing the fucking point.

Herd immunity is obviously always going to be a part of the discussion, and its actually to my benefit here-- as its becoming more and more difficult to argue that privileged middle-class families need to risk vaccine injury to the developing infant brain due to segregated communities and suburban lifestyle.

Again, you dumb fuck, herd immunity only works when enough of the population is vaccinated. When a bunch of your morons read a news article about some bullshit like vaccines cause autism, and then make the decision to be a free loader in the herd, what you are doing is actually reducing the ability of the herd immunity effect to function.

That's why you moronic mother fuckers have caused the largest measles outbreak in 20 years with this goddamn horseshit, and children actually fucking died as a result of it.

Anti-Vaccine Movement Causes Worst Measles Epidemic In 20 Years

Again: Shut the fuck up. You clearly don't have the education, or intelligence, to conduct a proper cost-benefit analysis of the situation, hence why you're reaching erroneous conclusions like "We don't have to vaccinate since we live in the suburbs and the herd will protect us! DERP!"

Fucking moron.

You didn't even address any of the issues of production methods of modern vaccines

There aren't any. And the very premise of your claim is that vaccines created in the past were....produced in a more safe way than in the present? That's fucking stupid. Our understanding of the impact of biochemistry and how these vaccines interact with our bodies is better than it has ever been. Fuck off, moron. Your kids are going to fucking die of a preventable illness, or spread one to someone else's kids, and you will literally be a fucking child killer as a result. Congrats.

This is one of the pro-vaccine nuts on display here folks.

No, you are the nut here, and you, and your ignorance, are on full fucking display for all to see.

All you've got is strawgrasping pseudo science and denialism, dipshit. Get the fuck out of here with this shit.
 
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hodj

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Vaccines, Autism, and the Danger of the Anti-Vaccination Movement


Paul Offit, MD, is director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. He has published more than 160 papers in medical and scientific journals in the areas of rotavirus-specific immune responses and vaccine safety. He spoke with Berkeley Wellness about why the anti-vaccine movement is so dangerous to public health.

How many parents choose not to get their kids vaccinated?
Roughly one to two percent of parents choose not to vaccinate their children at all. Between 10 and 20 percent delay or withhold certain vaccinations. What those numbers tell us is that many children are being put at risk of serious, preventable diseases.

Do unvaccinated children pose a risk to other children?
Of course. The best example is last year’s measles outbreak, which started in southern California and spread to 25 states and parts of Canada. Before that outbreak, there was a report by an investigative reporter named Gary Baum. He went from school to school in southern California and found that some elementary schools had vaccination rates less than 50 percent. He wrote an article predicting that this could become the epicenter of measles outbreak. He published it in what’s not thought to be a classic medical journal, the Hollywood Reporter. And he was absolutely right. When you start seeing a fraying of herd immunity, you begin to see outbreaks, starting with the most contagious diseases. And that’s exactly what we’ve seen: measles, mumps, and whooping cough outbreaks.

A lot of misinformation is based on anecdotal evidence. Why is anecdotal evidence so powerful, even in the face of scientific findings?

Anecdotal evidence is a contradiction in terms. It’s an emotional, personal experience, but it isn’t evidence. My child was fine. My child got vaccinated and now my child is not fine. The vaccine did it. That’s not evidence. Let me give you an example. My wife is a physician in private practice. She was in the office helping the nurse give immunizations. While my wife was filling a syringe with vaccine, getting ready to give the inoculation, a four-month-old child in her mother’s lap had a seizure and went on to have epilepsy. If my wife had given that vaccine 5 minutes earlier, the mother would have been convinced that the vaccine caused the seizure. You could present reams of scientific data showing that that particular vaccine doesn’t increase the risk of seizures, but it’s hard to convince a mother who says, “I saw what I saw.”

It’s reasonable enough to ask if the vaccine was responsible. But that’s an answerable question. You can do studies to find out. You look at large numbers of children who did or didn’t get vaccinated and look at rates of autism. And when we’ve done those studies, there’s no association between vaccination and autism. That’s real scientific evidence.

Are religious beliefs one reason some people don’t get their kids vaccinated?
Unfortunately, yes. In 1991, in Philadelphia, where I live, an outbreak of measles began that was centered around two fundamentalist churches that refused to vaccinate their children. Over the course of three months, there were 1400 cases of measles and nine deaths. The city was in a panic. It was a horrifying time. I wrote the book Bad Faith: When Religious Belief Undermines Modern Medicine, and especially a chapter called “Do Unto Others,” partly to exorcise the demons of that experience. The idea of a religious exemption not to vaccinate your child is the equivalent of a religious exemption to practice child abuse. How is it a religious act to expose your child to harm? It seems to me quite the opposite. Choosing not to get your child vaccinated is not a risk-free decision. Anyone who works in a large urban hospital, as I do, sees children die of vaccine-preventable diseases on a yearly basis. And it’s a terrible thing to see.

What is herd immunity?
Call it community immunity. If you get a high enough population of people immunized, then the virus or bacteria will no longer be able to spread. That number doesn’t have to be 100 percent. We started to eliminate polio in this country once we got to about 70 percent. The percentage needed depends on the contagiousness of the virus or bacteria. When we fall short of that number, then you put children who can’t be immunized at risk. About 500,000 people in the US can’t be vaccinated. They may be on immune-suppressing therapy for chronic diseases, for example, or on chemotherapy for cancer. They depend on others to get vaccinated in order to be protected. California recently passed a law, SB-277, that eliminates all non-medical exemptions, including religious and philosophical exemptions. That law passed in part because a little six-year-old boy with leukemia, who couldn’t be vaccinated, stood up at a meeting and said, “What about me? I depend on the people around me to protect me.”

Why are some parents reluctant to get their children vaccinated?
Partly because they’re no longer scared of these diseases, since we don’t see much of them anymore. And often they get bad information from the Internet that makes them afraid of things they don’t need to fear. In the case of measles, in 1998, a now-repudiated researcher named Andrew Wakefield published a paper linking measles vaccine to autism. There was no biological explanation and virtually no data. The paper should never have been published. But the media jumped all over it. The paper has since been retracted. But the fear it created still convinces people to make dangerous decisions for their children.

What do you say to parents who are afraid that a vaccine will harm their children?
I understand their concern. We have vaccines to prevent 14 childhood diseases.They may require 26 separate inoculations in the first few years of life to prevent diseases that most people have never seen, using biological fluids that most people don’t understand. It’s not surprising that parents are afraid. I respect that. What I don’t respect is when hundreds of millions of dollars are spent for studies that show that those fears are ungrounded, and people ignore the evidence and put their children at risk.

How can we counter the misinformation that’s rife on the Internet?
In the 21st century, we’re of the belief that we can master anything. With the Internet, we think we can learn as much as we need to know by going online. But that’s not the case. Let’s say you’re trying to decide whether to give your child the chickenpox vaccine. You look at people’s opinions on the Internet, and you call that research. In fact, if you want to do research on the chickenpox vaccine, you have to read the roughly 300 papers that have been published on the chickenpox vaccine. For that, you would need some expertise in virology, immunology, statistics, and epidemiology. Few parents have that. Few doctors have that. So we turn to panels of experts who collectively have that expertise, people who carefully evaluate the evidence and make the best recommendations on chickenpox vaccination. That message—trust us, we’re experts—is not one that sells in the 21st century. But in fact, if you want the best medical advice, turn to the experts.

What else should be done to make sure children are protected against preventable diseases?
We should do what California just did, and eliminate all non-medical exemptions. Among states, Mississippi has the highest vaccination rate, over 99 percent. Why? Because they have no non-medical exemptions. In a better world, information wins. You provide people with reliable information, presented in a compelling way, and they make the best choice. But that doesn’t always happen. Then you need to compel people to do what’s right. You don’t give people the option to do something that will hurt their children. You require them to do it. That’s how it works with seatbelts. You can’t get a religious or philosophical exemption and not strap your kid in. We compel people to do it because we know it will save lives. And we know that vaccinations will save many, many lives.
 
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hodj

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How the anti-vaccine movement is endangering lives

Infectious diseases that we normally think of as rare in the United States are making a comeback. In recent years, pertussis -- also known as whooping cough -- has returned to the headlines. A measles outbreak that struck a Texas megachurch community late last summer sickened 21 people. And just recently, at least 16 people got sick during a measles outbreak in Ohio. In fact, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recently reported 13 measles outbreaks so far in 2014 -- the most since 1996.

The diseases are highly contagious, but they are also preventable; two of the many recommended childhood vaccinations protect against measles and pertussis. And measles had been considered effectively eliminated in the United States. What's going on, exactly? Here are some answers.

Why are so many outbreaks happening? Although it's a complex problem, health officials say one key culprit is that more and more people are choosing not to get their kids vaccinated against these diseases. For instance, in California parents are increasingly seeking personal or religious exemptions from vaccination requirements for their kids to attend schools. Substandard vaccination rates create an opening for outbreaks, which often start when an unvaccinated person catches the disease while traveling abroad and spreads the illness to friends and family upon returning.

But aren't overall vaccination rates really high? Nationally, yes, though it wasn't always this way. Before the 1990s, rates languished below 80 percent for most childhood vaccines at the time. In 1993, after the 1989-1991 measles outbreak, Congress enacted the Vaccines for Children (VFC) program to promote childhood vaccinations.

CDC data show that vaccination rates are now above 90 percent range for several routine vaccines, including the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) and whooping cough vaccines. Public health officials target a 90 percent vaccination rate for most routine childhood vaccines. Experts say that a population has "herd immunity" when enough people are vaccinated to prevent a disease from taking hold. This chart shows how vaccination rates climbed after VFC's enactment:

whooping cough outbreaks in California.

Why are people not vaccinating their kids? There are a number of factors at play. Many of the diseases we vaccinate against are so rare here now that the public's awareness of vaccination might have decreased. But the one reason that has most alarmed public-health experts lately has been the rise of the anti-vaccine movement. Groups and activists such as celebrity Jenny McCarthy have repeatedly claimed that vaccines cause autism. This vaccine-autism concern may be causing a drop in childhood vaccination rates in many communities, including in affluent, well-educated ones.

Do vaccines cause autism? Science gives a resounding no. Anti-vaccine activists often hang their case on a study published in the British journal The Lancet in 1998. This study, which posited a link between the MMR vaccine and autism, was widely discredited by the scientific community and eventually retracted. But the anti-vaccine movement has still gained steam.

Anti-vaccine activists have also raised concerns about vaccines made with the mercury-based preservative known as thimerosal, which they worry could cause brain damage in developing kids. It's true that vaccines once routinely contained thimerosal, which government officials recognized as generally safe. But this preservative has been phased out of nearly all vaccines as a precautionary measure.

Anti-vaccine activists also worry that the CDC's recommended vaccination schedule could overwhelm infants' immune systems by packing too many doses into a short period of time. Although the number of vaccinations that kids receive now is higher than it used to be, the main ingredients in the vaccines have actually decreased in amount. Even if these ingredient amounts hadn't decreased, research has found no relationship between those amounts and autism risk.


Vaccines do carry a risk of side effects, but they are usually minor. The CDC has concluded from reviewing the scientific evidence that there's no causal link between childhood vaccinations and autism.

Routine vaccines save lives, says science. A new study from CDC researchers led by Anne Schuchat analyzed what happened to disease rates as childhood vaccination rates increased starting in the early 1990s. The researchers used these findings to model the resulting effect over the kids' lifetimes. In the analysis, the researchers factored in most routine vaccines recommended for children below age 6 (among them the MMR and whooping cough vaccines). Their findings: Routine childhood vaccinations given between 1994 and 2013 will save 732,000 lives and prevent 322 million cases of illness and 21 million hospitalizations over the course of the children's lifetimes.

Vaccines provide high public-health bang for the buck. The CDC researchers also weighed the benefits of the vaccinations ("savings in direct and indirect costs that accrued from averting illnesses, hospitalizations, and deaths") against costs ("program costs included vaccine, administration, vaccine adverse events, and parent travel and work time lost"). In 2009 alone, the researchers determined, each $1 spent on vaccines and their administration yielded $10 in benefits to society. And the vaccinations from 1994-2013, the researchers found, will save society a net $1.38 trillion, both directly (by reducing health expenses) and indirectly (via the economic activity that is saved from avoided illnesses). That's almost 10 percent of the U.S. economy's gross domestic product.


The CDC study may actually underestimate some benefits. Here's why. It doesn't account for cost savings to society brought on by preventing the diseases' spread to unvaccinated populations, "a powerful driver of cost-effectiveness" in the researchers' view. The study also excludes the influenza and hepatitis A vaccines, and thus fails to capture their benefits.

What's the bottom line? Vaccines may not be perfect. But the science suggests that they are effective -- especially when enough people are receiving them -- and there's still no evidence that they cause autism.
 
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hodj

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Vaccines Do Not Cause Autism Concerns | Vaccine Safety | CDC

There is no link between vaccines and autism.
Some people have had concerns that ASD might be linked to the vaccines children receive, but studies have shown that there is no link between receiving vaccines and developing ASD. In 2011, an Institute of Medicine (IOM) report on eight vaccines given to children and adults found that with rare exceptions, these vaccines are very safe.

A 2013 CDC study [PDF - 204 KB] added to the research showing that vaccines do not cause ASD. The study looked at the number of antigens (substances in vaccines that cause the body’s immune system to produce disease-fighting antibodies) from vaccines during the first two years of life. The results showed that the total amount of antigen from vaccines received was the same between children with ASD and those that did not have ASD.


Vaccine ingredients do not cause autism.
One vaccine ingredient that has been studied specifically is thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative used to prevent contamination of multidose vials of vaccines. Research shows that thimerosal does not cause ASD. In fact, a 2004 scientific review by the IOM concluded that "the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between thimerosal–containing vaccines and autism." Since 2003, there have been nine CDC-funded or conducted studies[PDF - 357 KB] that have found no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, as well as no link between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and ASD in children.

Between 1999 and 2001, thimerosal was removed or reduced to trace amounts in all childhood vaccines except for some flu vaccines. This was done as part of a broader national effort to reduce all types of mercury exposure in children before studies were conducted that determined that thimerosal was not harmful. It was done as a precaution. Currently, the only childhood vaccines that contain thimerosal are flu vaccines packaged in multidose vials. Thimerosal-free alternatives are also available for flu vaccine. For more information, see the Timeline for Thimerosal in Vaccines.

Besides thimerosal, some people have had concerns about other vaccine ingredients in relation to ASD as well. However, no links have been found between any vaccine ingredients and ASD.
 
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hodj

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The Anti-Vaccine Movement Says Measles Isn’t Dangerous. Oh, Yes, It Is.

Measles is back. Again. An outbreak is percolating that was first documented in California and has spread to four other Western states and Mexico. An unknown person incubating a measles infection exposed an undetermined number of individuals at Disneyland in Anaheim, California, resulting in 53 cases identified to date. The outbreak has caused students to be removed from school for weeks, closed a clinic visited by infected individuals, and resulted in orders of quarantine for many exposed to the virus.

A Southern California pediatrician with ties to the anti-vaccine movement, Bob Sears, has suggested that measles in the United States is nothing to fear, minimizing the potential complications the virus can cause. He does acknowledge in a post that the outbreak is a “public health nightmare,” which Sears himself knows well. A 2008 outbreak of measles beginning with an unvaccinated child returning from Switzerland was a patient of Sears’. That outbreak resulted in 11 cases, led to the quarantine of dozens more, and cost California more than $100,000 to contain.

While the incidence of measles has dropped about 99 percent since the introduction of the vaccine for measles, mumps, and rubella, that doesn’t mean we’re out of the woods. The past year has shown a resurgence in measles infections in the United States. Last year was the worst year for measles in two decades. While we’ve seen fewer than 100 cases of measles in most years since the turn of the century, that number spiked to 644 cases in 2014, from 23 separate outbreaks in 27 states.

Before the vaccine, the United States saw approximately 4 million cases of measles each year and 400 to 500 deaths. These are the stats that vaccine-deniers tend to emphasize—a relatively low number of deaths compared with the number of infections. However, those statistics alone leave out a big part of measles infections. Prevaccine, almost 48,000 people were also hospitalized each year because of measles and measles complications. One in 20 of those infected developed pneumonia. More rarely but more seriously, each year 1,000 became chronically disabled due to measles encephalitis.

Measles is not a benign disease.

But let’s back up for a moment. These data were from the mid-20th century. We’ve made strides in sanitation and nutrition since then, right? Sears and others point out the importance of having a “well nourished” population and living in a developed country. That supposedly makes all the difference.

What many forget is that we had a massive outbreak of measles in the United States from 1989–1991. While our 644 cases in 2014 seems high compared with recent years, 25 years ago measles incidence spiked to 18,000 cases per year, with a total of more than 55,000 infections before the outbreak began to dwindle. It was the largest measles outbreak in this country since the 1970s.

It’s hard to argue that in 1989 we had problems with modern sanitation. Arguably, we were healthier 25 years ago than we are now, if one uses the U.S. obesity rates as one marker of health and good nutrition. We had antibiotics for secondary infections, such as pneumonia, that settle in to measles-infected lungs—and fewer antibiotic-resistant bacterial pathogens than we do in 2015. Measles-associated pneumonia isn’t easy to treat if it’s caused by a “superbug,” and we’ve not had to deal with a huge measles outbreak in the age of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, or MRSA, and other drug-resistant bacteria.

Despite our advances and our modernity and our status as a developed country, we still saw 123 measles deaths during this epidemic—here, in the United States, where we get plenty of Vitamin A. There were also 11,000 hospitalizations—fully one-fifth of people infected with measles became sick enough to be hospitalized.

In modern-day America.

Bart Barrett, a physician who saw patients at the height of the epidemic, recalls one of those 123 deaths: a 1-year-old who developed complications. The family called paramedics, but by the time they arrived, it was too late. He was unvaccinated, which was common among young children during the 1989–91 outbreak.

Just as the outbreaks in the 1970s spurred the adoption of nationwide immunization requirements for school admission and attendance, the 1989–91 outbreak led to a modification in the vaccination schedule. While children had previously received a single dose of MMR, recommendations were updated to include two doses in the schedule, and a push was made to get young children vaccinated with their first dose at 12-15 months of age. Prior to the outbreak, it was estimated that only 60-70 percent of preschoolers had received MMR vaccines, leaving a large population susceptible to measles infection. The change in recommendations, along with a number of other policy changes aimed at making vaccines more accessible, collectively led to one of the great public health triumphs of the century: the elimination of endemic measles infection in the United States by 2000.

But as with any infectious disease, the gains we make can be ephemeral. Overall, our vaccination rate with MMR in the United States remains high: at or close to 90 percent by age 3 and about 95 percent by kindergarten. However, national statistics obscure local trends. Those 5 percent who are unvaccinated aren’t randomly distributed throughout the country. Instead, they tend to cluster in location, with many unvaccinated children living in close proximity to others, creating anti-vaccine communities with high susceptibility to measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases. This is where we see explosive outbreaks, such as the 2014 measles outbreak in Ohio’s Amish community.


Nutrition and sanitation are no panacea for measles and no substitute for measles vaccination. Living in the United States does not magically protect you from dying from measles or other infectious diseases. Being generally healthy alone is not a guarantee that you won’t end up hospitalized from a measles infection. Your best defense against measles is an up-to-date MMR vaccine for yourself and your family, checking to see that you live in a neighborhood and school system where others are likewise vaccinated, and spreading the word that vaccines are safe and life-saving. The best way to respect measles is to acknowledge its potential to cause serious illness.
 
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jayrebb

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WHEN ENOUGH OF YOU RETARDS BECOME CONVINCED THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO VACCINATE YOUR FUCKING KIDS BECAUSE YOU THINK IT IS DANGEROUS YOU WILL REDUCE THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE VACCINATED IN THE PUBLIC TO THE POINT THAT IT WILL BECOME THE 18TH CENTURY AGAIN YOU FUCKING MORON.

Also notice how he accused me of a "sourceless fact" and then when I proved to him that I was correct, he shifted goal posts and declared "Well that was the 1800s, thanks for proving my point!"

That is dishonest horseshit of the highest magnitude, an intentional non-sequitor to justify completely missing the fucking point.



Again, you dumb fuck, herd immunity only works when enough of the population is vaccinated. When a bunch of your morons read a news article about some bullshit like vaccines cause autism, and then make the decision to be a free loader in the herd, what you are doing is actually reducing the ability of the herd immunity effect to function.

That's right, moving goalposts. I think you just missed the point because of your over-active misguided amygdala wanting me to be your anti-vaxx punching bag. I have talked about nothing except reasonably delayed schedules, and your 11th century data doesn't concern 18-24 months.

So I am not going to discuss your statistics in regards to delayed schedule because you're trying to retrofit them, when I specifically mentioned delayed vaccines-- which was even outlined here for you as 18-24 months, incase you didn't know what that meant because Big Media didn't tell you about it. You're the guy using pseudo-science, I am using common sense based on the available data in regard to safety reform. We have no major studies done towards that end because of people like you using "1/2 died in the 18th century" pseudo-science to "reason" why delayed schedules should not have their viability evaluated.

I am for the proposals in California that create common sense guidelines for delayed vaccine schedule exemptions from the current schedule which was designed with your 19th century fear and misunderstanding in mind. Y2K holler at me, forward progress. Down with radical Islam.


That's why you moronic mother fuckers have caused the largest measles outbreak in 20 years with this goddamn horseshit, and children actually fucking died as a result of it.

Anti-Vaccine Movement Causes Worst Measles Epidemic In 20 Years

Again: Shut the fuck up. You clearly don't have the education, or intelligence, to conduct a proper cost-benefit analysis of the situation, hence why you're reaching erroneous conclusions like "We don't have to vaccinate since we live in the suburbs and the herd will protect us! DERP!"

Fucking moron.

Quotes Forbes (an entertainment publication) and caps off with "fucking moron". Well hold up a mirror, buddy. You found one.

Yeah the "WORST" and epidemic with those numbers taken out of context from an obviously underprivileged socioeconomic setting..

Did you believe there was an Ebola epidemic coming to the USA too, then? That we were facing completely and utter destruction at any moment? What immigration laws did we change to prevent the spread of Ebola? Oh none, because it didn't exist and was all propaganda fear tactic nonsense. To bullshit you and get you your attention.

What if this so-called Measles outbreak is a similar fraud? Is such a thing possible in 2017 in light of the Ebola scam being revealed to us? Why yes it is, Mr. Forbes.

There aren't any. And the very premise of your claim is that vaccines created in the past were....produced in a more safe way than in the present? That's fucking stupid. Our understanding of the impact of biochemistry and how these vaccines interact with our bodies is better than it has ever been. Fuck off, moron. Your kids are going to fucking die of a preventable illness, or spread one to someone else's kids, and you will literally be a fucking child killer as a result. Congrats.

Could not possibly be more wrong. As mentioned, dose units are no longer commonly produced in single one-use vials for the most part. MMR is mixed into a big vat, and the vat contains preservatives and solvents to ensure that the vaccine is stable in a big vat. They then pour it into a small jug known as a multi-dose vial, and it is then left to be drawn up by the doctor, under his discretion.

I know when I take a 5mg pill, I like to call it 5mg. Why should vaccines be any different? What solutions or vitamins have you drawn up and injected? Have you ever worked with a syringe for, B12 lets say? You sound crazy if you are defending the Big Jug production cost cutting measures that were done in the last 2 decades. Anyone who has experience with the equipment knows overdrawing is a concern with these multi-dose jugs.

What is the problem with producing a safe, single dose, sealed injectable unit of MMR? And thats not to even get into how unnecessary getting MMR all at once is, delayed schedule or not.

Not to mention there is no reason to produce MMR together other than to save money. Again, unnecessary inflammation for an infant who isn't even attending school or being dumped at some daycare center.

You're losing big time on unnecessary safety risks and common sense vaccine reform. Why would an infant be getting exposed to these DANGEROUS DISEASES prior to the age of 18-24 months unless you're from an underprivileged socioeconomic, and likely urban, background?

I believe in delayed vaccine schedule exemptions for those who can demonstrate the agreed upon risk factors for these diseases do not apply to them. But that's just common sense and the pro-vax nuts can't stomach any of that.

Keep popping big jugs of shit into your kid and letting big pharm big dollar interests call the shots on how safe a vaccine should be, and keep letting the urbanite welfare cases dictate policy to you and prevent meaningful common sense studies from being done.

I'm not your anti-vaxx punching bag, get Lumie or someone else to stand in here.
 
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hodj

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That's a lot of typing to be so fucking wrong on the facts.

Jayrebb what is your educational background?
 
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hodj

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I have talked about nothing except reasonably delayed schedules

There is no such thing as a reasonable delay schedule. This is made up nonsense by anti vaxxers who are trying to sound reasonable in the face of the overwhelming evidence that they are completely, 100% fucking wrong here.

And you are.

The facts are 100% against you in every way.

Yeah the "WORST" and epidemic with those numbers taken out of context from an obviously underprivileged socioeconomic setting.

This is just a base assertion that doesn't match up with the facts. 25 states and Canada were all "underpriivileged socioeconomic settings?"

Lol no. Try grasping some more straws.

So I am not going to discuss your statistics in regards to delayed schedule because you're trying to retrofit them, when I specifically mentioned delayed vaccines

You're not going to discuss statistics because they are hard facts that demonstrably prove you're an idiot.

Period.

Did you believe there was an Ebola epidemic coming to the USA too, then? That we were facing completely and utter destruction at any moment? What immigration laws did we change to prevent the spread of Ebola? Oh none, because it didn't exist and was all propaganda fear tactic nonsense. To bullshit you and get you your attention.

This is a non-sequitor and completely irrelevant

What if this so-called Measles outbreak is a similar fraud?

This is an appeal to conspiracy theory and isn't an argument.

I am for the proposals in California that create common sense guidelines for delayed vaccine schedule exemptions

Common sense guidelines are not possible because common sense is not an argument, and there is nothing sensical about delayed vaccine schedules, nor do you deserve an exemption so your kid can kill some other kids by spreading communicable and completely preventable diseases to them.

Appeal to common sense is a fallacy as well. Whose common sense? Yours? Yours is shit and we have the science on our side, so your common sense isn't sensical at all. Yours is science denialism and fear mongering. You have nothing here buddy, but appeals to "What if the flouride in the water turns the frogs gay" style arguments.

Take it back to infowars, dipshit.
 

hodj

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This thread gave Hodj autism

Anti vaxx nuttery gives the world measles rubella and autism.

All at once.

Could not possibly be more wrong. As mentioned, dose units are no longer commonly produced in single one-use vials for the most part. MMR is mixed into a big vat, and the vat contains preservatives and solvents to ensure that the vaccine is stable in a big vat. They then pour it into a small jug known as a multi-dose vial, and it is then left to be drawn up by the doctor, under his discretion.

All this is garbage already refuted. There is nothing wrong with the preservatives nor the "solvents" in vaccines. They are tested and approved by the FDA after rigorous scientific study. Deal with it.

What is the problem with producing a safe, single dose, sealed injectable unit of MMR?

The fact that one dose of MMR wasn't enough is the problem. Hence why after the 1980s outbreak, they increased the dosage to two.

Your entire wall of nonsense does nothing to refute any of the evidence I've cited. It is literally all Alex Jones style whackery.
 

hodj

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Keep popping big jugs of shit into your kid and letting big pharm big dollar interests call the shots on how safe a vaccine should be, and keep letting the urbanite welfare cases dictate policy to you and prevent meaningful common sense studies from being done.

I just want to quote this by itself so everyone reads it and doesn't miss it.

"Big jugs of shit" lol "Big pharma big dollars!"

The FDA calls the shots on vaccine safety, along with global health initiatives and organizations.

Not big pharma, dumb fuck.
 

hodj

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Anyway, Jayrebb, can you please cite us a peer reviewed, academically sourced piece of research that hasn't been discredited for over a decade, that supports the anti vaccine movement?

Or is peer review part of big pharma and the grand conspiracy to "pump your kids full of big jugs of shit for big pharma dollars" too?

How deep does the retard rabbit hole you've fallen down go, exactly?
 
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hodj

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Let me help you out there: There are none.

But there's plenty supporting my point of view.

For starters lets begin here

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...told_story/links/0912f50bd2e3345438000000.pdf

To assess the impact of anti-vaccine movements that targeted pertussis whole-cell vaccines, we compared pertussis incidence in countries where high coverage with diphtheria-tetanus-pertussis vaccines (DTP) was maintained (Hungary, the former East Germany, Poland, and the USA) with countries where immunisation was disrupted by antivaccine movements (Sweden, Japan, UK, The Russian Federation, Ireland, Italy, the former West Germany, and Australia). Pertussis incidence was 10 to 100 times lower in countries where high vaccine coverage was maintained than in countries where immunisation programs were compromised by anti-vaccine movements. Comparisons of neighbouring countries with high and low vaccine coverage further underscore the efficacy of these vaccines. Given the safety and cost-effectiveness of whole-cell pertussis vaccines, our study shows that, far from being obsolete, these vaccines continue to have an important role in global immunisation.
 

hodj

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The Effects of Anti-Vaccine Conspiracy Theories on Vaccination Intentions

Abstract
The current studies investigated the potential impact of anti-vaccine conspiracy beliefs, and exposure to anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, on vaccination intentions. In Study 1, British parents completed a questionnaire measuring beliefs in anti-vaccine conspiracy theories and the likelihood that they would have a fictitious child vaccinated. Results revealed a significant negative relationship between anti-vaccine conspiracy beliefs and vaccination intentions. This effect was mediated by the perceived dangers of vaccines, and feelings of powerlessness, disillusionment and mistrust in authorities. In Study 2, participants were exposed to information that either supported or refuted anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, or a control condition. Results revealed that participants who had been exposed to material supporting anti-vaccine conspiracy theories showed less intention to vaccinate than those in the anti-conspiracy condition or controls. This effect was mediated by the same variables as in Study 1. These findings point to the potentially detrimental consequences of anti-vaccine conspiracy theories, and highlight their potential role in shaping health-related behaviors.
 

hodj

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http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0264410X09019264


Abstract
The Internet plays a large role in disseminating anti-vaccination information. This paper builds upon previous research by analyzing the arguments proffered on anti-vaccination websites, determining the extent of misinformation present, and examining discourses used to support vaccine objections. Arguments around the themes of safety and effectiveness, alternative medicine, civil liberties, conspiracy theories, and morality were found on the majority of websites analyzed; misinformation was also prevalent. The most commonly proposed method of combating this misinformation is through better education, although this has proven ineffective. Education does not consider the discourses supporting vaccine rejection, such as those involving alternative explanatory models of health, interpretations of parental responsibility, and distrust of expertise. Anti-vaccination protestors make postmodern arguments that reject biomedical and scientific “facts” in favour of their own interpretations. Pro-vaccination advocates who focus on correcting misinformation reduce the controversy to merely an “educational” problem; rather, these postmodern discourses must be acknowledged in order to begin a dialogue.
 
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jayrebb

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Alright so I have determined you're a pro-vaccine nut who is willing to retrofit last centuries worth of data to the 2017 modern living condition, 18th century data (strong troll kid), in an attempt to FEAR the population into silence-- and that is OK, It takes all types to make the world go around.

Keep hugging Forbes magazine (an entertainment publication) when discussing THE WORST OUTBREAK EVAR. And the cooler heads will be over here having rational discourse about the possibility of funding studies on delayed schedules. The communities exist to support these studies, as your so-called anti-vaxx nuts are multiplying as you stated. But we can't take even 0.0001% risk because HERD IMMUNITY. We'll see about that buddy, people aren't waiting for studies because of the prevalence of bullies like you and we are asking for more data and more safety. It is possible to design such a study without putting the community at risk in 2017.

Vaccine court, immunity from direct litigation? Doesn't seem very American at all. Decreasing the consumers ability to enforce safety through a tort is one of the main checks and balances in a capitalist system driven by profit motive. And yes, vaccine safety went out the window by combining MMR with barely any data as well as "upgrading" to big multi-dose jugs.

We can't study it because of fatheads like you in the way, but we can use common sense to say "HEY CAN WE GET SOME SINGLE DOSE, SEALED PRE-LOADED, CAREFULLY CREATED UNITS OF MEDICATION?" Or can we have the manufacturer be responsible for fucking up a batch of vaccines?

Now where are my ANTIFA dogs at? (may as well stand for ANTI-FACT in your case, with your outdated junk data from the Crusades and Forbes entertainment news) I think we got a fascist on our hands here. Beat his ass.

cc: im taking a break from this as i don't have time to look at those links you posted at the moment.
 
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Burnem Wizfyre

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Alright so I have determined you're a pro-vaccine nut who is willing to retrofit last centuries worth of data to the 2017 modern living condition, 18th century data (strong troll kid), in an attempt to FEAR the population into silence-- and that is OK, It takes all types to make the world go around.

Keep hugging Forbes magazine (an entertainment publication) when discussing THE WORST OUTBREAK EVAR. And the cooler heads will be over here having rational discourse about the possibility of funding studies on delayed schedules. The communities exist to support these studies, as your so-called anti-vaxx nuts are multiplying as you stated. But we can't take even 0.0001% risk because HERD IMMUNITY. We'll see about that buddy, people aren't waiting for studies because of the prevalence of bullies like you and we are asking for more data and more safety. It is possible to design such a study without putting the community at risk in 2017.

Vaccine court, immunity from direct litigation? Doesn't seem very American at all. Decreasing the consumers ability to enforce safety through a tort is one of the main checks and balances in a capitalist system driven by profit motive. And yes, vaccine safety went out the window by combining MMR with barely any data as well as "upgrading" to big multi-dose jugs.

We can't study it because of fatheads like you in the way, but we can use common sense to say "HEY CAN WE GET SOME SINGLE DOSE, SEALED PRE-LOADED, CAREFULLY CREATED UNITS OF MEDICATION?" Or can we have the manufacturer be responsible for fucking up a batch of vaccines?

Now where are my ANTIFA dogs at? (may as well stand for ANTI-FACT in your case, with your outdated junk data from the Crusades and Forbes entertainment news) I think we got a fascist on our hands here. Beat his ass.

 
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hodj

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You can determine whatever the fuck you want, you dumb fucking retard. I follow the science where it leads, and where it leads with this topic is that

1. You have no evidence to support your position
2. You make a lot of appeals to conspiracy theories which have no basis in reality
3. You don't have the educational background to understand how stupid you are
4. Therefore the only nutcase here is yourself.

You are literally a vaccine Creationist. Nothing more.

When you can cite us some peer reviewed evidence supporting your point of view, let me know. Till then Imma keep copying and pasting peer reviewed academic research proving you're a dumb fuck.
 
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jayrebb

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I'm taking a break from this as i don't have time to look at those links you posted at the moment, and its becoming circular without me being able to do that.

Or as you say "moving goalposts".
 

hodj

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How the case against the MMR vaccine was fixed | The BMJ

How the case against the MMR vaccine was fixed

In the first part of a special BMJ series, Brian Deer exposes the bogus data behind claims that launched a worldwide scare over the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine, and reveals how the appearance of a link with autism was manufactured at a London medical school

When I broke the news to the father of child 11, at first he did not believe me. “Wakefield told us my son was the 13th child they saw,” he said, gazing for the first time at the now infamous research paper which linked a purported new syndrome with the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine.1 “There’s only 12 in this.”

That paper was published in the Lancet on 28 February 1998. It was retracted on 2 February 2010.2 Authored by Andrew Wakefield, John Walker-Smith, and 11 others from the Royal Free medical school, London, it reported on 12 developmentally challenged children,3 and triggered a decade long public health scare.

“Onset of behavioural symptoms was associated by the parents with measles, mumps, and rubella vaccination in eight of the 12 children,” began the paper’s “findings.” Adopting these claims as fact,4 its “results” section added: “In these eight children the average interval from exposure to first behavioural symptoms was 6.3 days (range 1-14).”

Mr 11, an American engineer, looked again at the paper: a five page case series of 11 boys and one girl, aged between 3 and 9 years. Nine children, it said, had diagnoses of “regressive” autism, and all but one were reported with “non-specific colitis.” The “new syndrome” brought these together, linking brain and bowel diseases. His son was the penultimate case.

Running his finger across the paper’s tables, over coffee in London, Mr 11 seemed reassured by his anonymised son’s age and other details. But then he pointed at table 2—headed “neuropsychiatric diagnosis”—and for a second time objected.