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AA"s ftw!! NGruk, you guys working on a making of documentary at all?

well, while I don"t like the lack of information, I do appreciate Moorguard and Nguk taking the time to chat about MMO"s in general. It"s good to see developers trying to stay in touch with their potential player base as well as the current trends and concerns in the industry.

not like we"re going to get any real 38s info anytime soon.

battlefield 2 / battlefield 2142 were pretty close! granted, less MMO, but more balance!

The first question I would ask if I was creating a company to enter the games market, was could the company survive the complete failure of a product? If not, then the scope / scale / budget should be dropped to the point where the answer is a yes. Obviously no one wants a complete failure...

who was it that sent him money for a musical keyboard?

Do you mean Otavia? If so, feel free to keep on believing he"s a she.

I don"t really have much to add.

I think this is BS. I missed the early days of WoW but can"t imagine people keep logging in and rerolling to experience all this fantastic content they missed the first time around. I"m much more convinced they intended to rush through it and get to the end game content that really mattered, and...

by these days I assume you mean the last 8 years. Developers need to learn this and design accordingly.

I think Mark Jacobs made a very good point that companies need to have the resources to cope with the inevitable setbacks that MMOs are going to face when they enter the market. Attemping to make a great, fun, stable, polished game straight out of the box is certainly admirable, but it"s not...

Sorry to derail the derail, But grats on the new middleware option Curt. Can you release any real info on why you chose that option and what advantages it"s going to have for your company? My first concern after reading through the press release is that its aimed at providing higher...

I prefer the term logical to realistic, and I prefer games, as well as any creative work like books or movies, to have a consistent logic to them, no matter how far outside reality that logic is.

Um, Random elements would make Mods even more required so that those elements are not missed. As far the the old days in EQ thought, how many guilds had some sort of access to ShowEQ or similar programs that serve pretty much the same purpose as mods do today. Back then people were in theory...

Have you guys given much though to expansions and how you want to produce them? Would you prefer EQ"s expansion every 6 months model, or Wow"s every 2 years? something in between?

I remember being a puller on one of the first Hate raids, as a human shadowknight. That was definitely a thrill.

I really like the 8 man groups in vanguard. Made it so much easier to get groups happening and to add people. There was a lot more flexibility in terms of adding the perceived non essential classes. It"s amazing how restricting it felt when they dropped it back to 6.

How about EPIC GROUPING!

Chaos or truly dynamic gameplay?

Rings won in Madden count right?

Also, Eve"s system is pretty front loaded, at least it was until they introduced cap ships and what not. You could get to 80% as powerful as another player in 1/10th the time, so while you could never catch up, you can quickly be competitive, added to the fact that skill and organization can...

even with insurance you lose money, but yeah, careful players playing low risk strategy don"t really fall into the money sink plans. Out in 0.0 where you can not only lose your ship and mods, but any implants you use and replacement clones, it"s a different story. And there"s always ton of silly...

The good thing about Eve"s system is that there are some self regulating elements. Firstly, it has a much better exit system for money in terms of people losing ships and stuff like that. Combined with a nice logarithmic scaling of power. Buy something that"s 5% better for 10 times the price...

Not just that it encourages people to do it their way, people just prefer and trust more official setup then the black market way of doing it. I"m sure the amount of isk you can buy for is greater then you can get from trading in time card, but its less hassle, no risk, and perfectly legitimate...

Slight tangent, but how much does monthly cost factor into things? I know I wouldn"t pay for more then 2 mmos at a time, even assuming I had the time to play 2. I think that is the cause of people assuming any new mmo has to be a wow killer, not so much because they will destroy wow, but they...

Just meant to lay off the purely personal attacks that were creeping in. It is nice to have a couple of threads on the forum that are actually cordial and constructive and this seems to be one of them.

No flaming and insulting each other please, make your own threads for it!

There"s also the need to make quality products. Matrix attempted to make the transition to a franchise with the Enter the Matrix game, along with the sequels, and presumably the mmo. Unfortunately they were all of such poor quality that they effectively killed off the franchise.

It"s all very well aiming to win the world series, and I would expect nothing less from professionals, but unfortunately the MMO industry isn"t quite as forgiving as Major League Baseball! 8) If you full short, you don"t often get a chance to pick yourself up, learn from mistakes and have...

Then they should probably work around whatever specs the next gen of consoles would be using, since they will form the benchmark of comparison. Though arguably even this generation of consoles might be a usable frame of reference.

Granted, but just looking at the minimum and recommended specs of Unreal Tournament compared to WoW shows there"s going to be a serious difference is what computers will be able to run the game, and run it well, especially in an MMO environment. Granted, it"s possible you could scale back on the...

I think people are tried of gorgeous worlds that have very little substance behind them and can"t be run adequately on a good portion of people"s computers. And OEE? does the world really need another buzz word?

yay for the aussies!

One of the bigger difference is that WoW is based on a playerbase of game buyers. The comparison to other franchises, such are Star Wars isn"t quite accurate. Likewise, tapping into the fanbase of Curt and Co is more complicated since you"re radically changing the format of how they are fans, if...

I go by Eve as a benchmark. They seem to be prospering quite well with 100k subs. I can easily see a game with good fiscal management being sustainable with 25k or 50k subs

I think by technical barrier he means more system requirements. Wow runs on virtually any computer which makes it a lot more accessible then games like VG or EQ2.

I agree totally. Even just working a couple of months on our little practice project has illustrated many of your points. Even the cool ideas that do work and look like they will be fun for the long term, have such far reaching ramifications in an MMO since every thing is so tightly linked...

the one thing I would want to see removed from MMOs is developers asking what the 1 thing players hate about MMOs. Seriously, MMOs are far to complex to be summed up into 1 major flaw that if solved will drop everything else into place. These things don"t exist in a vacuum, and very few of the...

I"d like to see the situation where an Ogre is the best tank via a certain method, brute damage absorption, while the gnome can achieve the same tanking level via a different method, better avoidance for instance. Combined with that, I hate how come classes get no use from certain stats...

Making classes unique is such a tricky challenge. I think wow made the right choice in having reduced number of classes, and that"s why they are probably closest to what you describe, but even they suffer from cylical over / under balance problems. EQ2 attempted the solve the problem but...