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You do have a reflex reaction against any idea that changes the current mmo paradigm though. And a first person mmo is definitely not the current rule. As for copying EQ1, I would play that game and it would do well. But it wouldn't be the "next big thing" for the reasons copying WoW doesn't...

Hah. I say that because it's shorthand for your constant arguments for more of the same. You always say you want something different but in the end everything you argue for is just a copy of what we already have. You argue against anything that changes the mmo space in any significant way and...

Saying it doesn't work has already been proven wrong since EQ1 was a first person game and was very successful. And it has all those traditional mmorpg elements that you claimed force games to be 3rd person. Your WoW centric viewpoint has skewed your ability to think outside of the box, or to...

Probably not feasible for Vanguard. But if it could be done in some form then it would be a huge draw to any game that did this.

Market research is very much like polling. The questions you ask determine the result. And the conclusions based on those results are often times faulty. If you ask people if they hate gun violence then most of them will say yes. But it would be wrong to conclude based on those results that...

Ford didn't use market research to get his company started. In fact he was laughed at by the people who thought his idea for a car for the masses was failure. And all of Job's best ideas WENT AGAINST market research. Admittedly, some of his failures also went against market research. It isn't...

If that's the only reason to play a 3rd person game then why even have combat? You could just make a fashion show mmo and make billions (which isn't that bad an idea actually). The thing is an mmo doesn't HAVE TO BE 3rd person to be successful. Only morons believe that. There is room for a...

Are you seriously equating market research with science? Lol. All you have to do is look at history to know that market research is just another word for maintaining the status quo. And yet history has shown that everyone from Ford to Jobs and beyond who had a "vision" that went against...

Ahh yes. The research boys told you the magic formula for making good games... always believe the market research guys. Next to "design by committee", market research is the holy grail of creativity and success.

Daoc2 is ok with me.

You don't know that. You are just assuming it because of your "everything must be WoW" bias. Thank god FPS designers know better.

So do you play a dude in third person games? In tight leather or in a dress? Lol.

Yep, given the option of an extended 3rd person then most players will have to use it because of the greater field of view. I think Draegan's idea of a limited 3rd person over the shoulder view, along with a first person option, is the best compromise. It doesn't give 3rd person an undo advantage.

This is a much more reasonable explanation for WoW's third person preference, not some gay "look at me" assumption. But it isn't necessary to have 3rd person view to have lots of action. FPS games do pretty well in the marketplace last time I checked. Mmos haven't taken advantage of it because...

Many of my friends refuse to play rpgs or mmos because of the third person view. We all did fps lan parties for years. They like first person action and will not play any game without it. There is a huge portion of the gaming player base that feel that way. Basically, their viewpoint is that...

It might be good. Just have to wait and see. Making early pronouncements of suckage is par for the course here, but that isn't because of any prescience, most new mmos suck. It's an easy bet.

Lol, so much wrong with this statement and all based on assumptions you formed with your extreme WoW bias. EQ1 classic worked great and it was a first person game, it's third person controls were so clunky as to be unusable. You just assume that everyone wants WoW's third person view because...

Third person view is the beginning of the death of immersion. In first person games I play dudes, looking up and out at the world and sky the artists have dreamed up. Sometimes even feeling as if I might actually be there, if only for a short time. Didn't play chick toons until playing 3rd...

Short sighted devs are their own worst enemy.

He's getting better. And I really like hearing from people who have an international perspective, even if their english isn't the best.

VG was more of an EQ2 clone by design, And EQ2 was quest driven you fucking moron. WoW didn't invent quest driven play. So stop shitting up threads with your complete full retard idiocy. Playing a game to level 10 and then calling it a WoW clone because it has quests is one of the dumbest...

Been avoiding this discussion because frankly it's moronic. Gather 10 bear skin quests were not invented by WoW, EQ had a ton of them. Oh and by the way EQ is called EverQUESTfor those who forgot their glasses. I can't believe you fell for this idiocy Draegan.

Not many. But there were a couple of higher level players that lost corpses on my server, and I still remember them to this day. The danger that you might lose your corpse in EQ classic was usually just a lowbie experience. Once players were a high enough level, then losing a corpse in EQ was...

So you are a neckbeard laughing at neckbeards.... and proud of it

The main difference between EQ classic and WoW classic for me was the lack of danger in WoW. Sure WoW had the ui thing figured out and questing was easier but in every other way WoW seemed like an exact clone of EQ to me, except there was no danger, no excitement and no fun in WoW. And that...

The point is that you bringing up "Brilliant design" has very little to do with what makes a game fun, when accidents have just as much or more to do with it.. And obviously I said EQ was a better game "in my opinion". Again.. "brilliant design" doesn't matter, only if the game is fun. You...

WoW is "brilliantly designed" and yet it sucks, imo. Many of EQ's best features were accidents and yet EQ classic was a better game, imo. Many scientific advancements were accidents. It really doesn't matter in the end if a game is brilliantly designed or not, only if the game is fun. And I...

I agree that most mmos are mediocre to horrible in the long term. But in spite of that, I usually enjoy the first few weeks of most of them. Which is a lot more time than I spend in single player games that cost the same amount.

True. Sandbox is a very vague term and most people have differing definitions. Smed's definition is almost guaranteed to include things most of us will not agree with.

You haven't been following the discussion.

Lol, I don't care what EvE does with mega-server tech, or if they ever use it. It was just an example to refute a silly arguement.

That would work. We have been discussing world building tools, but have neglected what EQN might have for adventurers with these new tools. They are largest part of the playing public.

So they don't have cloaking devices in EvE? Come on, it's the same thing used in a different way. Give it up. Your arguments make no sense. I proved that EvE or any sandbox can make use of mega-server tech. You claimed it was impossible. Just the act of claiming something is impossible makes...

Probably not. Devs hate fun sometimes. But it would be great to have that in some form, somewhere in the game world.

Well obviously restrictions would apply. All mmo's have a number of restrictions in place to keep the 1 percent from ruining it for the rest. That's just good business. The tools AND the restrictions are what is being discussed. Nobody said it would be exactly like Minecraft. Minecraft is just...

heheh... We Know DRAMA

Well that's the point isn't it? The options EQN has in providing world building tools are endless and not restricted to Minecraft's.

Not in the way I applied it to EvE. In other games sure, there can be similarities but that depends on the devs involved. As I said in another post, mega-server is not a one size fits all solution. Star Citizen is just one way to implement it but not the only way. But if you are stuck inside...

So you are saying that Star Citizen and EvE are very similar... riiiight.

troll somewhere else