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So you"re saying you"re perfectly happy with another holy trinity MMORPG? Interesting.

And exactly when should an MMO in development decide that it doesn"t want to follow in the EQ/WoW footsteps? Two years before release? One? Six months?

It"s good to be the King and etc. There"s nothing wrong with protecting your investment by witholding information. But if, say, you were actually developing new mechanics to move beyond the old tank/healer/dps/cc , you could say "we"re developing new mechanics to try and move beyond t/h/d/c"...

I"ve heard it before. Bottomline I want to see a new MMO with something other than diku/EQ/WoW/VG type mechanics (tank, dps, heal, cc). I don"t want to hear "your character will be a hero" I want to hear "instead of just tanking/dpsing/healing/ccing like every other fucking MMO you"ll be...

If we"re talking about diku-derived fantasy MMOs I agree with Ukerric that not using an established IP (I will randomly name a few: Wheel of Time, Dune (not really fantasy but close enough), Harry Potter) would seem to make entry into the market much more difficult. I certainly don"t think it"s...

A good summation. You have to instance but you don"t have to instance like WoW. Instancing is best when you need to do some significant story driven content -- a great example are the early Chapter quests in LOTRO and the class quests (also LOTRO). In those cases (similiar to what Grave...

What? This doesn"t make any sense. If the game ships with a cellphone interface to the AH and everyone knows about it -- what"s the problem? The cell phone interface is part of the game. The guy on the cell phone and the guy on his computer both interfacing with the AH are both "in the game".

As noted on the other thread there are a lot better tools out now. According to the article .38 is evaluating existing engines right now and they plan on releasing episodic content so they"re not going to try and ship a gigantic world.

Hopefully you aren"t involved in the development of some of the more interesting-looking upcoming games.

A bard kite killing an entire zone may be a little too much freedom but if a company is trying to make the proverbial WoW-killer limiting freedom (beyond excesses like the aforementioned bard) is the wrong way to go.

What precisely is wrong with creating headaches for developers? The point of a game isn"t that developers have an easy time developing the game but that players have a fun time playing the game. * * * I appreciate spronk"s point that there is some give in WoW at the 5-man level. I don"t...

WoW would be a better game if you weren"t forced to do everything the way the devs intended. What I am most interested in finding out about WAR and AoC (and .38 studios and Bioware games when they finally get annouced) is if any of the aforementioned games permits more freedom in handling...

2bit -- In 1997 had this board existed and someone suggested that someone should take a text MUDs and make it 3D I have no doubt you would have said something just like the above. Technology improves. Tools improve (well barring of course insane situations where programmers refuse to provide...

Lets, arguendo, assume you"re right: that a majority of raid targets needed a good fd puller (quick aside chatting with my buddy currently raiding post-PoP/GoD/whatever on Combine he assures me that isn"t the case that they primarily use bards for pulling but whatever). How is that any fucking...

I never played them but wasn"t the Thief series built around stealthing to victory versus combat? That could certainly form part of a new MMO. Similiarly VG"s diplomacy had it been actually integrated with dungeons and not cities could have formed an alternate way to beat (intelligent) bosses...

This conversation needs to be restarted with the proper basic premises. (1) Every system is a skill system. Pure class systems are simply static skill systems where players are required to select the specific set of skills (aka the class) that he can use upon character creation. (2) WoW is...

Dude you and 2bit have the same problem. You"re always waiting for somebody else to propose something so you or he can shoot it down. Why don"t you try to come up with a good example yourself? Try some hypo-craft.

Did you not play LOTRO at all?

I"d agree with this. A lot of the fun I had in VG was almost certainly unintended and much of that was nerfed or changed for the worse -- who remembers the quite cool Mothras in the Tsang forest area? I"d say the same thing about WoW. What I enjoyed most about the game had little to do with...

Probably why I never last more than a year at any one game. * * * In any event 2bit even combat doesn"t require tanks, healers, dps, cc (well not in the EQ/WoW sense of those words). Certainly none of those classes make sense in some hypothetical WWII MMO (it"d have a far different type of...

I ran around VG and looked at all the shit. Hell I tried to swim from Thestra to Kojan early on. I did similar explorations in EQ and WoW. The last six months in WoW were just getting into areas I hadn"t gotten to before. One of the reasons I liked VG was the fact there was a shitton to explore...

Hell yeah it"s fun. The last six months I played WoW I spent almost my entire time exploring its backside (top of Un"Goro, old Silithus, Hyjal & CoT pre-TBC the weird shit in Deadmines). One of the four types of gamers is Explorer -- so I know I"m not alone (and wasn"t alone on those journeys)...

IF, hypothetically, 38 studios has decided to go with a skill-based system but the content is still designed around the main archetypes (tanking, healing, CCing, dpsing (melee/magic:emoji_nose: + what I also consider main archs -- but a lot of people think of as secondary characteristics...

And a hug.

You"re right man. What do you want to talk about?

Nothing to do with trite French philosophies. I wasn"t kidding in my post above. 38 studios for sure has their design docs by now. Their class system are set (and probably have been set for weeks or months) already (and guessing from CS"s ravings about WoW"s classes that"ll be the base from...

Dude it just doesn"t matter. You understand that right?

I"d like to be your BFF 2bit. * * * You"re a beautiful man (woman? thing?) Agraza. For fuck"s sake they"ve made this thread just so wanna-bes like myself will happily post 10 pages of drivel on a class system that 38 studios will never use. Do they care? Of course not. The only point to...

I don"t care that you hate the idea. I just think its amusing that you -- Mr. game designers should be humble and listen to new ideas & etc. -- come up with bullshit reasons why it sucks. Reality is that you don"t like it simply because its my idea but you refuse to admit that. That"s why I keep...

Okay so you make sure it takes at least 100 hours to level to max = 2700 hours for 27 (actually a 100-200 less because of twinks but whatever). It isn"t happening. I fail to understand why you"re flipping out about this.

Oh come one. Say average 60 hours to level all 27 classes (80 for the first guy less for twinks). You"re talking 1620 hours if all you do is just level one class after another. Give me a break. Maybe five insane people will do it -- but most will only do what 5 maybe? How many max level alts...

Who the hell is arguing for being every class at once? The only thing anyone has said at anytime is that alts shouldn"t be necessary. You should be able to use one char to level any class and then switch classes with a classmaster or whatever. How the hell is that being every class at once?

As noted, I don"t object in theory to skill based systems as opposed to a class based system. As long as the rock/scissors/paper rule is adhered to for content and skill design. I think the biggest problem isn"t in balance but in PUG formation. Sans classes how do you identify what you need...

Whats the real difference between that and having 27 alts? You have to level the class or the alts. Instead of saying leveling a Druid to 70 and then an alt Shaman to 70 and then telling your party (when they need a Shaman) give me a second let me log off and log on my Druid. You just level your...

Man I wish I were an astronaut. If I had 30million to spend I"d blow it on a space station run w/ a little help form the Russians. In any event you forget that I believe in job-swapping and subjobbing. So my full system is ultimately more flexible than WoWs. Sick of being a shadowknight...

D. Does Blizz have to balance each of the talent trees a class has with the other 2 trees the class has as well as the 3 talent trees of all the other classes? I"m not asking if the trees are correctly balanced (a whole nother question) -- but rather aren"t they supposed to be balanced...

Listen you dipshits (I refer to you and Drag) as noted several times already balancing WoW"s 3 talent trees/class is no different than balancing 27 distinct classes with specific sets of abilities. There is no fucking difference between balancing 27 classes with one set of abilities and 9...

I"m okay with tri-classes too. There are like 54 combos or something given the 8 archtypes -- just pick 15 or so of them and go with it. Of course they can try and think out of the box and get rid of the Diku archetypes. No clue what they"d replace them with. You can go pure-itemization (the...

Any hybrid CC should be roughly equivalent CC ability. Same that any hybrid with Tank should be roughly equivalne tank abilty. Any hybrid with X should do X roughly as well as any other hybrid with X. Class differentiate is accomplished by the unique combination of abilities. There is only...

Bullshit. It is far more fucking likely in the wait an hour for perfect group scenario than the first and you know it. In any event this whole discussion is becoming retarded. A properly designed class system combined with decent level designs = no required classes for any 5/6-man content...