The Paranormal, UFO's, and Mysteries of the Unknown

Chukzombi

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Are you saying that people are covering something up or that people are just fucking up the methods for dating things?

I always wonder why people think there would be some grand cover up. I think people researching the stuff would want the truth to be known just as much as us plebs.
i dont think there is some collaborated coverup. i think its nobody wants to be THAT GUY who bucks the narrative by claiming the pyramids/sphynx/peru megaliths are near the same age as gobekli tepe and part of a very ancient global trade network. first thing that happens, you lose all credibility, then you lose funding. then you go to work for starbucks.
 
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Chukzombi

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The fact that some youtube guys don't want to spend a week cutting a stone just to prove that they can doesn't mean that if you have a couple hundred or even a couple thousand people working on it all day every day that they wouldn't be making a lot of progress even if it does take two guys a week of working all day to cut one block. The fact that we use machines to do pretty much all of that kind of work makes it hard to realize how much can be accomplished by just a bunch of humans busting their ass all day.

Argument from incredulity - RationalWiki
exactly, its an unfeasible amount of time for just one cut block. then you have no delivery system. no rednecks to lever a block a hundred miles from the quarry.
 

MusicForFish

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Stop saying Aliens. I know Aliens that would be offended. As if they'd dig around in the dirt like us flithy dirty apes!
 
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BrutulTM

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exactly, its an unfeasible amount of time for just one cut block.

According to who? You? If you're an emperor and you have a few thousand people who have to do what you say then maybe it is a feasible amount of time. Like I said, no one does manual labor anymore so we forget how much a bunch of guys with hand tools can accomplish. Marching Roman Legions used to build camps with trenches and fences/walls around them while they were marching sometimes every night and that included harvesting wood from the forest, then they would just leave them behind. Some of the nicer ones were actually taken over once the Romans left and became towns. When you have 3000 motivated guys with hand tools they can do a whole lot of work even if each guy isn't doing much compared to one modern guy driving an excavator.

11fort.jpg
 
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Chukzombi

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i dont think its unreasonable to scale back the timelines on these ancient megalithic structures. whats 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000, 20000+ years in the past when you still have the same basic problems of who, how and why they were built. in fact, the further back they go the more plausible some of these structures can become. then you can say, well 10k years ago they had woolly mammoths moving these things and they had a lot more time to do it. the Younger Dryas Event occurs and then construction abruptly stops due to massive extinction of megafauna and ancient peoples. lots of lost knowledge. by making these things only a few hundred years ago like say the Peruvian megaliths just makes no goddamned sense. there is a VERY clear distinction to the manner of construction.

look at this example.
this is the third pyramid in egypt. (menkaure)
7325829.jpg

roughly 4000 years old according to the narrative

then you have the megaliths in Peru
3107567246_1fd646b87c_b.jpg

around 500 years old according to narrative. they look the same

there really needs to be a break in the hivemind and admit. yes, people have been awesome and a lot earlier than we previously imagined. Gobekli Tepe has already set the precedent.
 

Chukzombi

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According to who? You? If you're an emperor and you have a few thousand people who have to do what you say then maybe it is a feasible amount of time. Like I said, no one does manual labor anymore so we forget how much a bunch of guys with hand tools can accomplish. Marching Roman Legions used to build camps with trenches and fences/walls around them while they were marching sometimes every night and that included harvesting wood from the forest, then they would just leave them behind. Some of the nicer ones were actually taken over once the Romans left and became towns. When you have 3000 motivated guys with hand tools they can do a whole lot of work even if each guy isn't doing much compared to one modern guy driving an excavator.

11fort.jpg
you're just making up scenarios too. the number of guys make no difference. im sure it took a lot of guys, but i'm also sure there was a lot of other work to be done. there was also a lot of other structures all built in the same manner that required the same attention and all have been credited to one or two rulers. there simply isnt a feasible amount of time to achieve these things in the short time they were given to have happened. keep in mind. the same people saying these things. also claim there were NO slaves building them. all paid contractors.
 
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Kiroy

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Megaliths are indeed a source of wonder. How in the fuck...

ya keep researching this shit it's fucking insane once you really understand how dating is done, it's flaws, and the shit that was built pre-dryas
 
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Kiroy

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O h I know, but aliens is the undercurrent for most of these vids. I'm not accusing you of that.

Like I said, I do like most of the vids. You might get one of two good ideas surrounded by crazy in each one. Considering the subject matter, that is NOT bad.

literally 98% of the vids we post have auther that don't believe aliens, they believe in ancient pre dryas civs
 
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Kiroy

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Are you saying that people are covering something up or that people are just fucking up the methods for dating things?

I always wonder why people think there would be some grand cover up. I think people researching the stuff would want the truth to be known just as much as us plebs.

I disagree with chuk. It's a coverup, but not so much conspiracy nefarious as it's just bedrock sciences protecting it's foundation which is probably completely incorrect
 

Kiroy

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According to who? You? If you're an emperor and you have a few thousand people who have to do what you say then maybe it is a feasible amount of time. Like I said, no one does manual labor anymore so we forget how much a bunch of guys with hand tools can accomplish. Marching Roman Legions used to build camps with trenches and fences/walls around them while they were marching sometimes every night and that included harvesting wood from the forest, then they would just leave them behind. Some of the nicer ones were actually taken over once the Romans left and became towns. When you have 3000 motivated guys with hand tools they can do a whole lot of work even if each guy isn't doing much compared to one modern guy driving an excavator.

11fort.jpg

gobekli tepe is 10k+ years old. this is pre civ by many thousands of years. Tell me, pre civ, how did they feed and house 1000s of people in an effort to make a thing that's just a temple (not a means of survival).

gobekli and the meteor inpact in greenland is the first real tip of the iceburg in the bullshit we've been fed about civilization. most dating methods are completely fucked because people built on top of already established sites

thank god gobekli tepe was completely buried right away or it would also be fucked and we'd thinking it was a few thousand years old rather than a very recent post dryas rebuilding site
 
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Kiroy

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i dont think its unreasonable to scale back the timelines on these ancient megalithic structures. whats 1000, 2000, 4000, 10000, 20000+ years in the past when you still have the same basic problems of who, how and why they were built. in fact, the further back they go the more plausible some of these structures can become. then you can say, well 10k years ago they had woolly mammoths moving these things and they had a lot more time to do it. the Younger Dryas Event occurs and then construction abruptly stops due to massive extinction of megafauna and ancient peoples. lots of lost knowledge. by making these things only a few hundred years ago like say the Peruvian megaliths just makes no goddamned sense. there is a VERY clear distinction to the manner of construction.

look at this example.
this is the third pyramid in egypt. (menkaure)
7325829.jpg

roughly 4000 years old according to the narrative

then you have the megaliths in Peru
3107567246_1fd646b87c_b.jpg

around 500 years old according to narrative. they look the same

there really needs to be a break in the hivemind and admit. yes, people have been awesome and a lot earlier than we previously imagined. Gobekli Tepe has already set the precedent.

just in case anyone of the doubters are wondering the "fringe conspiracy crazy theory" is that the pyramids were build on megalithic pre dryas foundations
 
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BrutulTM

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I don't know how it was built. I'm just saying you guys are indulging in the "I don't know how to do it so it must be impossible" fallacy. It's okay to say "I don't know how this was done" without immediately jumping to a bunch of conclusions that you just pulled out of your ass with absolutely no evidence.
 
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Chukzombi

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I disagree with chuk. It's a coverup, but not so much conspiracy nefarious as it's just bedrock sciences protecting it's foundation which is probably completely incorrect
i mean its being covered up, i dont deny that. i'm just saying there isnt some cabal of mustache twirling archaeologists deciding that nothing is older than 4500 years old becase The Vatican is paying them. i just think its like the global warming cult, nobody wants to break ranks and admit we are in a natural warming trend that humans have no control over.
 
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Kiroy

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I don't know how it was built. I'm just saying you guys are indulging in the "I don't know how to do it so it must be impossible" fallacy.

it's literally there, who's saying it's impossible?

we're just saying the story doesn't add up, so this thread is trying to fill in the blanks and the why's and how's

look into pre and post dryas and it's really not all that crazy that humans pre 12k bc did some crazy shit that's unexplainable with our current base of knowledge (which isn't made easier with career scientists not wanting to say they were wrong), but not impossible
 
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a c i d.f l y

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I don't know how it was built. I'm just saying you guys are indulging in the "I don't know how to do it so it must be impossible" fallacy. It's okay to say "I don't know how this was done" without immediately jumping to a bunch of conclusions that you just pulled out of your ass with absolutely no evidence.
Like saying a television is impossible because you have no idea how transistors or diodes work. There's no real conspiracy, and it's not like there aren't several ideas of "how" something was made, just that there's no solid proof on any one thing for objects made so long ago that have endured so much weathering as to remove that evidence.

If you get down to it, grinding on stones and moving them around isn't rocket science. You don't need special "advanced" tools. Rock on rock with water to sand something down to form. Ropes to ensure level and parity. Pyramids using basic as fuck civil engineering techniques. Stacking rocks really isn't that complicated my dudes.
 
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Kiroy

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Like saying a television is impossible because you have no idea how transistors or diodes work. There's no real conspiracy, and it's not like there aren't several ideas of "how" something was made, just that there's no solid proof on any one thing for objects made so long ago that have endured so much weathering as to remove that evidence.

If you get down to it, grinding on stones and moving them around isn't rocket science. You don't need special "advanced" tools. Rock on rock with water to sand something down to form. Ropes to ensure level and parity. Pyramids using basic as fuck civil engineering techniques. Stacking rocks really isn't that complicated my dudes.

there is some decent science involved when it comes to grinding down granite before a few thousand years ago, but honestly, the whole thing comes down to timelines and 'civilization', which don't add up
 
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iannis

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I definetly do think it's possible that in the course of 50,000 years (which is not all that much time if you consider evolutionary time scales) there was room for powerful, technological civilzations to rise and fall. Possibly even globe spanning ones, if you look at asian characteristics in south american statuary.

Of course... that might also be erosion. When those things were painted they might not have looked asian at all. I mean that's the wall you start to hit.

Our current record is only about 4,000 years. And I think that's being a little bit kind with egypt. Old Kingdom/New Kingdom stuff is super murky for dates. The stuff we're relatively solid on is more like 3,000. That seems to be when people started to preserve stuff that they wrote down. Those grain tallies and crap. Maybe they wrote it down 15,000 years ago but it don't matter if we don't have it. There's room for supposition about pre-history pre-cataclysm civs. Ancient mythology certainly would lead you to believe that's a possibility. And maybe the Heiroglyphs actually are "they wrote it down" from truly ancient times that we've mistranslated.

I'd expect you might see more than some megalithic structures. There should be something else to indicate it. That's where the skepticism comes from. Artifacts made out of finely cut giant stone and laid with great precision sure is fucking WEIRD. But it is just one thing. Even if that one thing is loosely iterated in multiple locations. Concurrent evolution of ideas is also a real thing.
 

Chukzombi

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Like saying a television is impossible because you have no idea how transistors or diodes work. There's no real conspiracy, and it's not like there aren't several ideas of "how" something was made, just that there's no solid proof on any one thing for objects made so long ago that have endured so much weathering as to remove that evidence.

If you get down to it, grinding on stones and moving them around isn't rocket science. You don't need special "advanced" tools. Rock on rock with water to sand something down to form. Ropes to ensure level and parity. Pyramids using basic as fuck civil engineering techniques. Stacking rocks really isn't that complicated my dudes.
yet nobody can duplicate it when challenged using the same tools. years ago they decided that they knew how Stonehenge was built. they decided to put their theory to the test. they used a smaller stone and still couldnt fucking do it. same shit in Costa RIca
balls2.jpg

one dude decided he had this shit figured out. so he started pounding on a rock with another rock to form the sphere. he kept pounding


and pounding




and pounding






many hours later they go back to the guy to see what progress he was makin. i guess they were expecting a rough circle or at least some kind of curve. dude had maybe a slight abrasion on the rock after an entire day's work.

meanwhile there are literally HUNDREDS of those things.
shar1.jpg
 

Kiroy

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I'd expect you might see more than some megalithic structures. There should be something else to indicate it. That's where the skepticism comes from. Artifacts made out of finely cut giant stone and laid with great precision sure is fucking WEIRD. But it is just one thing. Even if that one thing is loosely iterated in multiple locations. Concurrent evolution of ideas is also a real thing.

dude look into the younger dryas, it's all but proven at this point

the earth got mega fucked 12-13k years ago, which is why it's hard to find anything. consider most of civ is build on the coast and the stuff being found underwater, it's not surprising we aren't finding much
 
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