Arkk's Weight Lifting / Fitness Thread
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Brahma
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I'd agree with Ark's advice: that shoulder impingement is a highly probable diagnosis to consider. The other one that is important to consider is distal clavicle osteolysis - a condition almost entirely specific to weight lifters (so given the population of this thread...). It's very hard to actually obtain a correct diagnosis over the internet without actually being able to examine someone and test specific points and load specific joints/muscles. Just jumping to the most common conditions, often nets you the right diagnosis (most of the time) though.
Either way, Dabamf, you've previously said that surgery is not an option for you. So... non operative options: You have outlined your options as complete rest vs light exercise and gradual increase in intensity. My opinion here has no medical backing, and therefore probably shouldn't be taken as anything more than that. Even if we ignore the fact that we don't have a 100% definite diagnosis, scientific articles often don't tend to be very specific when they recommend 'rest' as non-operative management. Certainly the 2 options which you have described would not be distinguished from one another.
Anyway - how do you define complete rest anyway? You aren't going to be putting your shoulder in a sling for x weeks. Day to day activities will require some amount of movement from your shoulder. Typically shoulder impingement is exacerbated by overhead activities (and distal clavicle osteolysis by bench press and military press) so obviously you want to avoid those activities if they cause you pain... but what if they don't cause you pain? I would suggest that doing any activity (including the potentially exacerbating activity) which doesn't cause you pain is acceptable - and therefore the best way to go to minimise losses during your 'rest' period without compromising your recovery. Once again - I have no statistical evidence to back up this statement.
In regards to comments about anti-inflammatories (1) masking potentially protective pain responses and (2) delaying healing by limiting the effects of increased blood flow which is part of inflammation. In pathological inflammation - inflammation (which the body's generalised response to almost everything) has gone past its beneficial effects and started to actually become deleterious. NSAIDs help push the balance to a better level. It's not like they are so super effective they stop 100% any inflammation happening anywhere in the body. If your problem actually is shoulder impingement, then the problem is one of lack of space, which may possibly be helped if NSAIDs decreasing inflammation causes the structures affected to decrease in size and stop rubbing against one another. Similarly with masking protective pain responses - I don't think NSAIDs are that effective. You are talking local anaesthetic type blocks to get to that sort of level.
tldr: Do whatever that doesn't cause you pain. And I think NSAIDs are a good option. (However use with caution if you have any problems with stomach ulcers or kidney impairment. And don't ever take NSAIDs with aspirin).
2 days later the severe pain with certain movements is gone, and replaced with a duller pain that occurs with pretty much every movement, along with occasional light popping that is quite uncomfortable. Ironically the only movement that feels free and unrestricted is with my arm over my head. It's really weird. The smaller movements exacerbate the dull pain to a point where I'd wear a sling if I had one. I'm trying to keep it immobile for now. It doesn't make any sense though. My workout felt absolutely fine.
Fortunately I'll have insurance come fall, so I can go get a battery of knee/shoulder tests if necessary. For now, I started icing my shoulder twice a day, and I've already been taking ibuprofen regularly for months for my knee.
I'm starting to feel like my body isn't made for lifting or something. I've always been a skinny fuck and I'm built like Daniels from The Wire (minus those glorious chesticles), in terms of frame shape. I work so hard and am religious about proper form, fighting an uphill battle against my genes to get stronger, and when I finally get over a hump and make steady progress (since Nov basically), another problem comes up.
What if I dropped everything down to like 70% and just started back on linear progression (with SS) from there just to let joints heal, etc. If my recent knee problem was from overuse, and this shoulder thing is also, maybe it's happening all over. Also, is it generally agreed upon that higher rep sets are easier on the joints? I wouldn't mind slower strength progression from doing 6, 7, or 8 reps a set if it meant a significantly easier time on my joints.
The whole point in lifting for me is simply to be physically..sturdy. In college I went to the gym to get buff and look good. I stopped for years once I got to a point I was happy with (having put on 40 pounds). That inactivity lasted until my knee injury 3 1/2 years ago made me think about what happens to your body as you age and don't exercise, and I want to be able to be active my whole life. So my original motivation this go-around was just to be in good shape. I got obsessed with strength gains simply as an indicator of progress, and if I'm not making progress in something, I get insanely bored. IE going to the gym for "maintenance" is unbearable. I've made a lot of progress with SS and have enjoyed it far more than any other routine.
Is 5x3 or 5x5 just too intense for my body or something? This is so god damn frustrating. You guys have seen my numbers. It's not like I'm doing some insane weights or anything.
Fortunately I'll have insurance come fall, so I can go get a battery of knee/shoulder tests if necessary. For now, I started icing my shoulder twice a day, and I've already been taking ibuprofen regularly for months for my knee.
I'm starting to feel like my body isn't made for lifting or something. I've always been a skinny fuck and I'm built like Daniels from The Wire (minus those glorious chesticles), in terms of frame shape. I work so hard and am religious about proper form, fighting an uphill battle against my genes to get stronger, and when I finally get over a hump and make steady progress (since Nov basically), another problem comes up.
What if I dropped everything down to like 70% and just started back on linear progression (with SS) from there just to let joints heal, etc. If my recent knee problem was from overuse, and this shoulder thing is also, maybe it's happening all over. Also, is it generally agreed upon that higher rep sets are easier on the joints? I wouldn't mind slower strength progression from doing 6, 7, or 8 reps a set if it meant a significantly easier time on my joints.
The whole point in lifting for me is simply to be physically..sturdy. In college I went to the gym to get buff and look good. I stopped for years once I got to a point I was happy with (having put on 40 pounds). That inactivity lasted until my knee injury 3 1/2 years ago made me think about what happens to your body as you age and don't exercise, and I want to be able to be active my whole life. So my original motivation this go-around was just to be in good shape. I got obsessed with strength gains simply as an indicator of progress, and if I'm not making progress in something, I get insanely bored. IE going to the gym for "maintenance" is unbearable. I've made a lot of progress with SS and have enjoyed it far more than any other routine.
Is 5x3 or 5x5 just too intense for my body or something? This is so god damn frustrating. You guys have seen my numbers. It's not like I'm doing some insane weights or anything.
Seananigans
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I facepalm every time I see you come in here and post about your pain, Dabamf. Because it's always followed up by "OK GUYS WHAT EXERCISES CAN I DO TO FURTHER INJURE MYSELF?!" even if it's worded the opposite. It's part of the reason I giggle when you try to give people advice, when you're so clearly being a complete retard yourself.
Seriously dude. You've made 6+ unique posts about your knee (and now shoulder) pain, in 3-4 months or something? Take a fucking break before you permanently fuck yourself up. My RL friend pulled the same shit you're doing and now has to live with permanent shoulder issues, which basically removes any intense upper body workouts from possibility.
Fucking. Take. A. Break.
/facepalm
Seriously dude. You've made 6+ unique posts about your knee (and now shoulder) pain, in 3-4 months or something? Take a fucking break before you permanently fuck yourself up. My RL friend pulled the same shit you're doing and now has to live with permanent shoulder issues, which basically removes any intense upper body workouts from possibility.
Fucking. Take. A. Break.
/facepalm
Brahma
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According to that chart, you mofos are looking at an elite specimen! (Buahahahaah that chart is so wrong) Except in power snatches. No fuckin way I would even try those. Not even sure of the purpose of those.
I did shoulders today. Worked out with the Crossfit trainer. This little mutha is beast. He can't weigh more than 190? He did everything I did at my weight and then some.
He gave me some tips on increasing my bench. Like using dumbells in place of machines. Lowering weight on bench, and increasing the reps, then work up the rep count as I add weight gradually over the weeks. Trying 5x5's etc.
Shoulders presses on smith machine was 320 x10. Best I could do. Too awkward getting weight from back to front on press bench.
I did shoulders today. Worked out with the Crossfit trainer. This little mutha is beast. He can't weigh more than 190? He did everything I did at my weight and then some.
He gave me some tips on increasing my bench. Like using dumbells in place of machines. Lowering weight on bench, and increasing the reps, then work up the rep count as I add weight gradually over the weeks. Trying 5x5's etc.
Shoulders presses on smith machine was 320 x10. Best I could do. Too awkward getting weight from back to front on press bench.
Louis
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You don't know what the fuck you're talkin about
The knee issue that is mentioned in 90% of my posts was not an injury. Plica excision has nothing to do with the supportive structures in your knee.
The only "injury" was <1 month ago, and I quite significantly backed down after that and it hasn't been an issue since. I'm still doing 80% of my previous squats. That came out of no where, and advice I got here helped me know what to do about it.
The shoulder problem was out of no where. Ok well it was a "my shoulder always gets sore, this is probably just more of the same, OH SHIT NO ITS NOT." I posted for advice about what it is and how to handle it, and the advice has been helpful.
"What exercises can I do?" is a rehab question. I know 0 about rehab, except that doing nothing improves nothing. I learned that after my knee surgery, when 1 year post-op left knee was in better condition than 2 year post-op right knee because I started squatting within like 2 months of my left knee surgery.
If you wanna tell me to fuck off about fishing for a diagnosis or suggest "maybe 2 acute injuries in a month is a sign that you're pushing it too much" go ahead. But your judgment is retarded and wrong. I've never ignored an injury and I've never had any indication that I'm pushing it too much untiltwo days ago.So go fuck yourself.
P.S. Brahma, I wanna see pics. I'm imagining a geriatric Schwarzenegger, much like current Schwarzenegger
How'd you manage to diagnose something as uncommon and detailed as a plica excision? Because you didn't see a doctor, sooo yeah.
Like it or not, you ARE the "don't want to go to a doctor so please random people with no medical training whatsoever help me diagnosis my medical issue over the Internet" guy. Athletes think they just tweaked their knee all the time and then blow their knee out weeks later and tear their ACL or more because they pressed the issue, or sometimes in the opposing limb because it overcompensates for the injured side.
You are asking for how to rehab an injury that you don't even know you have. WebMD is not an MD. I get that you don't have insurance but its all the more reason to back off. If you tear your labrum or something in your shoulder because you don't know when to stop then you are looking at 10-15k in medical bills and 6+ months off. Your knee would be even worse.
What's the rush?
Celebrindal
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I absolutely ruined my right knee with similar thinking in college - torn MCL, ACL, shattered knee cap and destroyed all of the cartilage between the cap and the joint. Had some pain there while over training my legs (was a big soccer player), a few months later I hyper-extended the damn thing and like a dumb ass continued to play soccer/squat/train my legs. Playing pickup basketball a few weeks after hyperextending it I came down with a rebound and landed oddly on it, and POP - game over. To this day I can't do a full leg extension straight up w/ that leg. I just doesn't "work" that way anymore. It's also caused my left leg to grow faster/bigger/fuller, as I can't do normal exercises (like deep squats, leg extensions, etc) because of it.
I would take a month off of heavy lifting and focus on endurance/cardio or simply isolation exercises.
I would take a month off of heavy lifting and focus on endurance/cardio or simply isolation exercises.
Intermediate on most of that list for what its worth, anyway surgery 9:45am tomorrow, looking forward to getting on with rehab as fast as I can.
Um, plica excision is a surgical procedure. I managed to diagnose that because...wait for it...my surgeon cut open my knee, saw the shit, and cut it out. One might even say he...excised it.
And I know I'm the "ask medical advice on the internet" guy. I said I was. What I'm not is "go all out despite everyone saying not to" guy.
This is quickly becoming one of those internet one-guy-makes-a-wrong-assumption-and-suddenly-it's-truth things, so I'm gonna nip that in the bud right now.I PLAN TO LET MY SHOULDER HEAL JUST AS I HAVE BEEN LETTING MY KNEE HEAL. My question was ultimately what people in this thread, who themselves are weight lifters and thus have more knowledge than the -no one else- I would ask about this problem, think I should do. You motherfuckers are acting like I'm going to ignore what you said before you even say it. Just say what you're gonna fuckin say, and wait till I listen or not before giving me shit. Jesus christ.
It looks like the consensus is chill out for a while. Noted
Sorry, I'm not a doctor, so I confused it with one of your other 18 injures. You know, this nonsense:
Let's just be honest. You aren't going to let either one heal. You are going to try and work around it. Have fun.
Brahma
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Brahma
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My chest routine is 3 benches. Flat/Incline/Declines. Press machines. Flat/Incline/Declines. Cables. Straight/upper/lower.
Instead of machines, do dumbells.
As for the power snatch, I just don't know why anyone would want to do that exercise. What does it work that you couldn't do with a "safer" exercise.