Baldur's Gate 3 by Larian Games

Uriel

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I don't think anyone has actually seen the release implementation yet of character creation / race differences that they might change. Also modding will add a lot of possibility here, so I guess I don't care that much about the stats as long as there are other weighty racial differences still besides that (and you can enforce the original stat bonuses on yourself when you create a character too if you want, might need a mod to adjust a few races back not sure).
 

Seananigans

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So the page you linked has the old stats additions. If you look at high elf, the old way would give them +2 dex +1 int as a racial. Now you get to choose what stat gets +2, and what stat gets +1.

Again, the races still get all the other bonuses locked to them. On the BG3 Wiki, High Elves still get: Darkvision, Keen Senses, Fey Ancestry, Longsword Proficiency, Shortsword Proficiency, Longbow Proficiency, Shortbow Proficiency, and 1 High Elf Cantrip.

I thought I have seen you post in a DnD or the Pathfinder game thread, but just in case you are not familiar with it:
All stats start at 10 with 27 points to use to increase those to a max of 15. The more you increase the stat, the more it costs. You can also "dump" stats that are irrelevant to the class down to 7 to get more points to increase the stats you want. What the "racial" stat additions allow, is the ability to increase one stat to 17, and a second stat to 16 (if you want), instead of the cap of 15.

Point distribution for a wizard w/o racial stats:
STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 15
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

Point distribution for a High Elf wizard before the change (current PnP):
STR: 8
DEX: 16 <-- 2 points forced here
CON: 14
INT: 16 <--- 1 point forced here
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

Point distribution for a High Elf wizard after the change:
STR: 8
DEX: 15 <-- you chose to put 1 point here
CON: 14
INT: 17 <-- you chose to put 2 points here
WIS: 10
CHA: 8

I love that the selling point for this controversial change is the ability to make an objectively worse high elf wizard.
 

Tuco

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So the page you linked has the old stats additions. If you look at high elf, the old way would give them +2 dex +1 int as a racial. Now you get to choose what stat gets +2, and what stat gets +1.
grimace-clint-eastwood.gif


Thanks for breaking out the crayons for me.
 

Daezuel

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Damn, wife about to have 2nd baby (any day now) and am in the middle of playing 3 different games and I'm still thinking I might have to jump in.
 
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Khane

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Damn, wife about to have 2nd baby (any day now) and am in the middle of playing 3 different games and I'm still thinking I might have to jump in.

Okay hear me out because I am an expert on these things.

Move the computer to the room furthest away from your bedroom, put the auto rocking bassinet next to the desk. Wait for the newborn to wake up in the middle of the night.

"It's okay honey, I got this." Grab the kid, head to the gaming lair, put them in the bassinet, put on the headphones and get a killer session in.

It's even good for the kid. Just Google it. Trust me.
 
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mkopec

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LOL I remember the days of feeding my newborn and playig EQ at the same time....Good times.
 
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Caliane

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So the page you linked has the old stats additions. If you look at high elf, the old way would give them +2 dex +1 int as a racial. Now you get to choose what stat gets +2, and what stat gets +1.

Again, the races still get all the other bonuses locked to them. On the BG3 Wiki, High Elves still get: Darkvision, Keen Senses, Fey Ancestry, Longsword Proficiency, Shortsword Proficiency, Longbow Proficiency, Shortbow Proficiency, and 1 High Elf Cantrip.

I thought I have seen you post in a DnD or the Pathfinder game thread, but just in case you are not familiar with it:
All stats start at 10 with 27 points to use to increase those to a max of 15. The more you increase the stat, the more it costs. You can also "dump" stats that are irrelevant to the class down to 7 to get more points to increase the stats you want. What the "racial" stat additions allow, is the ability to increase one stat to 17, and a second stat to 16 (if you want), instead of the cap of 15.

Point distribution for a wizard w/o racial stats:
STR: 8
DEX: 14
CON: 14
INT: 15
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

Point distribution for a High Elf wizard before the change (current PnP):
STR: 8
DEX: 16 <-- 2 points forced here
CON: 14
INT: 16 <--- 1 point forced here
WIS: 12
CHA: 8

Point distribution for a High Elf wizard after the change:
STR: 8
DEX: 15 <-- you chose to put 1 point here
CON: 14
INT: 17 <-- you chose to put 2 points here
WIS: 10
CHA: 8
also relevant. you get ability score improvement at 4th, 8th and 12 levels.
so this high elf with 17 starting int, will have 18 int at 4th level, 19 at 8th, and 20 at 12th level.
 
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Hateyou

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Notice he said "wife about to have" and not he's about to have.
Dude don’t be an asshole. We should all be wishing him well and pray that his wife’s boyfriend has good genes and the baby is strong and healthy.
 
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Uriel

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also relevant. you get ability score improvement at 4th, 8th and 12 levels.
so this high elf with 17 starting int, will have 18 int at 4th level, 19 at 8th, and 20 at 12th level.

In 5e I guess they changed ASI to every 4 class levels instead of character levels, something to remember if you're multiclassing.
 

Burns

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I love that the selling point for this controversial change is the ability to make an objectively worse high elf wizard.
It's not worse, it's the same or better. INT is the most important stat, so, for the High Elf example, from character creation you can now get +3 (17 int) on all int rolls, which in turn gives a larger bonus to most spells. The PnP (old) way only allow you to get to +2 (16 int) on High Elf. Edit: Messed up my math, explained a few post below. Having 17 INT at creation lets the wizard become a better caster sooner.

It also means, as Caliane said, you can get to +5 (20 int), instead of +4 (19 int - which you wouldn't go to 19, because 18 is also +4) for a High Elf wizard due to the level 12 cap in BG3.

In the old (PnP) system, a High Elf Wizard was a worse caster than a Gnome or a Half Elf at every level from level 4 to 8, then 12 to 16, due to Gnomes/Half Elves being the only race that could get a +2 Int bonus from racials.
 
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Bubbles

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Look at this guy having sex.

Grats <3

lets not jump to any conclusions here. He could be so dumb that he thinks that sex is when his wife hold his dick in her hand and then she pops out a broodling with American Inventor genes and her explanation is that they had sex at night when it was dark.
 

Caliane

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It's not worse, it's the same or better. INT is the most important stat, so, for the High Elf example, from character creation you can now get +3 (17 int) on all int rolls, which in turn gives a larger bonus to most spells. The PnP (old) way only allow you to get to +2 (16 int) on High Elf.

It also means, as Caliane said, you can get to +5 (20 int), instead of +4 (19 int - which you wouldn't go to 19, because 18 is also +4) for a High Elf wizard.

you are brainfarting on that. 16 and 17=+3. the difference is 17 gets you that next +1 at level 4, then another +1 at level 12. for a total of +5 at 12.
While a 16 start, gets you +4 at level 8, and thats it.

Magic items may justify a 19 base. we'll have to see what larien puts in. same with larva corruption.
(There should be more +1 and +3 items, but theres not much or any in tabletop.)
 
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Burns

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you are brainfarting on that. 16 and 17=+3. the difference is 17 gets you that next +1 at level 4, then another +1 at level 12. for a total of +5 at 12.
While a 16 start, gets you +4 at level 8, and thats it.

Magic items may justify a 19 base. we'll have to see what larien puts in. same with larva corruption.
(There should be more +1 and +3 items, but theres not much or any in tabletop.)
Oh, right. Messed up my count when trying to think it out.

So in the example of a High Elf Wizard, the difference between the old way and the new way to do racials is that the new way High Elf Wizard will be a better caster from level 4 to the end of 7, and then again at 12.

I assume they will also need to house rules a few races like Human and Shield Dwarf, since they are getting the shaft with the new system.
 

Caliane

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another reason a 19 might not be totally useless, (in the long run). if dlc or expac raises the cap to 16.
 

Grabbit Allworth

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I'm 100% on board with the argument that stat bonuses no longer being tied to race is retarded. That idiocy got started by limp-wristed Leftist faggots complaining about bio-essentialism in D&D. When the 5e Tasha's rulebook was published it offered an optional rule that's almost exactly what Larian implemented in BG III.

Sorry, but Halflings just don't have the physical prowess of a Half-Orc, but neither does that Half-Orc have the nimbleness of a Halfling.

In my tabletop campaign I've even gone so far as to implement a houserule that really hammers home the difference between races. For example - every race has a stat that is capped at 18, but each race also has a stat that is capped at 22 (but you can't exceed 20 until level 7). There were similar rules in the earliest editions of D&D, but those iterations were a little extreme. I want there to be differences, but I don't want them to be so disparate that people will never consider making a 'sub-optimal' choice.

Where I landed is not a massive difference, but it's definitely meaningful. If you play an Elven Fighter with a max Constitution of 18 you're never going to have the same hardiness of someone playing a Dwarven Fighter with a max con of 22, but nor should you.

I despise the fact that the blue-hairs want race to be almost meaningless. Without a mechanical difference, race is meaningless at 98% of tables because real games of D&D aren't Critical Role. None of us are performing for an audience of thousands that drool over the backstories of corny-ass characters. In fact, roleplay, apart from a few quips or brief moments, rarely happens at all. Every once in awhile a groups is blessed with someone who really leans into a character and is actually good at it, but it's super rare.
 
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