Baldur's Gate 3 by Larian Games

Tuco said:

A sweaty hard more in BG3 where strings of encounters had to be fought contiguously with no returning to camp, long-resting etc would be interesting, though it would eliminate a lot of interesting builds that rely on taking a nap after every tough fight.

Click to expand...

One of rhe best tabletop dnd games I played was hard ruled on 5 fights per full rest. No way to sleep every 30 feet

mkopec said:

That also sucks too though because unless you know exactly what you are facing in those 5 fights to plan your skill spent accordingly, youre at the mercy of rng and whatever the fuck you face. In that type of lock out only after 5 fights to rest would lead people to sandbag all of their good shit or not even use it, or jsut be dumb and spend all of your shit in the first fight and be screwed for the rest. Shit just does not sound fun to me. its just a dumb system for video games. The good ole 5 AP and skill/spell CD or the 2AP systems fit way better to video games.

Click to expand...

Yea. It was 4th so it was videogameized to start.

In another, dark souls themed pathfinder, sleep was only allowed at bonfires. It was a jam too be cause each journey was tense

Kirun said:

I actually LOVE restrictions on resting in PnP D&D. Because I love D&D for the tactical aspects, fuck the RP. It's one of the reasons I liked 4th so much.

Click to expand...

I would love it in this game too, if they could figure out how to actually make it a mechanic that adds difficulty. I tried to stretch resting as a self imposed difficulty mechanic and it made fight decisions more tactical or "feel" more DnD to me (used more consumables and cantrips, mostly).

i think a lot of people don't use cantrips on their casters, so every turn is an excuse to demonstrate how powerful they are, instead of practicing some level of restraint. there are PLENTY of encounters where your melee can wade in while your casters chuck cantrips and call it a day. for whatever reason, maybe because they just can't stop themselves from spamming haste and fireballs or maybe because they played pathfinder where the cantrips SUCK, people avoid using them in this game. there was a HUGE section of my playtime where i rested because shadowheart was out of or low on spellslots from healing, while gale was sitting pretty with over half his slots left.

as far as resting in tabletop goes, i really feel like it's on the DM to regulate that. i think rules as written, you actually CAN'T do a long rest if you're within 8 hours of a previous long rest. there have been times when we've had to just set up shop and take a 16 hour long rest because we were too close to our previous rest. it's extremely rare that we do that though, and almost exclusively comes down to narrative reasons. but again, that's up to the DM to regulate that. if the party is resting too much, give them reasons why they can't, or if they do there will be consequences. the hostage they are trying to save gets executed, the boss they are trying to track down leaves, etc.

either you continue the chase while wounded and at half strength but catch the boss by surprise, thereby making the encounter easier, or they rest and go in at full strength, but allow the boss to prepare for the encounter increasing the difficulty. obviously an automated process like bg3 can't take that kind of thing into account really, but a DM absolutely should be doing things like that.

mkopec said:

Nahh, those skills that required source were more like ultimates rather than using a heal 2x and you have to rest.

Click to expand...

What skills used source points other than bless/curse/whatever the "Have to recast it every 10 rounds because some weird ghost sight wore off" spell was? Might have memory holed that aspect of the games, I just remember the cooldown side of the tier 5 skills like arrow rain/volley, ice storm, meteors etc that you could offscreen entire mob packs with. Didn't think those needed source points

k^M said:

What skills used source points other than bless/curse/whatever the "Have to recast it every 10 rounds because some weird ghost sight wore off" spell was? Might have memory holed that aspect of the games, I just remember the cooldown side of the tier 5 skills like arrow rain/volley, ice storm, meteors etc that you could offscreen entire mob packs with. Didn't think those needed source points

Click to expand...

Arrow rain and the high level skills definitely needed source.

mkopec said:

Cantrips....MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS, this is why I shelved that wizard in the first place. Did you even play the same fucking game? And like I said, I tried to go 2-3 before resting. But its just a dumb fucking mechanic to try and balance shit in video game. It might work in tabletop and it prob makes more sense in RP terms in tabletop, but it sucks donkey balls in video games.

I mean whats even the fucking use of casters if youre gonna cantrip 10x every fight? Might as well roll a archer or fighter, monk and get 2-3+ attacks per round for way more HP. And heal spells in this game sucked dick unless they were higher level cleric spells. Healing for 5-7 hp aint shit at lv 10+ So its eithe buffbot with hastes and all that, or slamming those fireballs, or else the caster is fucking useless. Cantrips, lool.

IDK maybe im just playing wrong. Like I said I never played tabletop so all this shit is new to me.

Click to expand...

cantrips and leveled spells have ZERO differences when it comes to actually hitting. the only difference is that leveled spells that require a saving through usually will still do half damage if the target saves. but outside of that a cantrip will have the EXACT same chance to hit a target that a lvl 9 spell has, which will have the EXACT same chance to hit as an equally geared melee does.

this has been brought up multiple times. the ONLY reason for a wizard to be missing way more with cantrips is because you either have the stats allocating poorly or the dice just specifically hate that character's cantrips, which seems unlikely

mkopec said:

Cantrips....MISS MISS MISS MISS MISS, this is why I shelved that wizard in the first place. Did you even play the same fucking game? And like I said, I tried to go 2-3 before resting. But its just a dumb fucking mechanic to try and balance shit in video game. It might work in tabletop and it prob makes more sense in RP terms in tabletop, but it sucks donkey balls in video games.

I mean whats even the fucking use of casters if youre gonna cantrip 10x every fight? Might as well roll a archer or fighter, monk and get 2-3+ attacks per round for way more HP. And heal spells in this game sucked dick unless they were higher level cleric spells. Healing for 5-7 hp aint shit at lv 10+

Click to expand...

Unlike older games, where you get healing touch 1, 2, 3, 4 as you level, if you want to heal more, you upcast the lower level spell. Still, in this game healing spells are fairly worthless outside of healing word, since potions are better. The main purpose of healing word is to stop characters from dying when they are knocked out, so they can then use a potion and get back in the fight.

The game gives a decent amount of +spell attack, but even without it, Gale should have been over 70% hit chance, when on higher ground, for most of the game on his real cantrips, as long as you boosted his Int to max as soon as you could (level 4 take it to 18 or 19, then level 8 take it to 20).

There was an issue with the firebolt that Shadowheart can cast, being tied to Int, instead of Wis, so it always had shit hit chance. Also, the cantrips granted by items worked the same, I think. Where they had shit hit chance because the were going off a stat that the character may not have had bonuses on. Clerics are supposed to melee anyway, so they have harder time hitting with cantrips to begin with.

Burns said:

Unlike older games, where you get healing touch 1, 2, 3, 4 as you level, if you want to heal more, you upcast the lower level spell. Still, in this game healing spells are fairly worthless outside of healing word, since potions are better. The main purpose of healing word is to stop characters from dying when they are knocked out, so they can then use a potion and get back in the fight.

The game gives a decent amount of +spell attack, but even without it, Gale should have been over 70% hit chance, when on higher ground, for most of the game on his real cantrips, as long as you boosted his Int to max as soon as you could (level 4 take it to 18 or 19, then level 8 take it to 20).

There was an issue with the firebolt that Shadowheart can cast, being tied to Int, instead of Wis, so it always had shit hit chance. Also, the cantrips granted by items worked the same, I think. Where they had shit hit chance because the were going off a stat that the character may not have had bonuses on. Clerics are supposed to melee anyway, so they have harder time hitting with cantrips to begin with.

Click to expand...

in BG3, cantrips scale off of whatever your characters highest mental stat is. so shadowheart's firebolt will scale off of wisdom, astarion's will scale off of int and if you have a half-elf paladin or sorcerer or bard or whatever, it'll scale off of charisma. i think in earlier versions it was identifying firebolt as an int based cantrip, but in reality it IS scaling off your highest mental stat. i don't know if new versions properly identify that or not, but that is indeed how it works

and certain cleric subclasses are meant to be casters while others are meant to be melee. but either way, a melee cleric with 18 wisdom will have the EXACT same chance to hit with a cantrip as a caster cleric with 18 wisdom. a paladin with 18 charisma will have a perfectly cromulent time hitting with a firebolt.

also, at regular intervals (the same interval as fighters extra attack) cantrips "level up." so at character level (not class level if you're multiclassing) 5, a firebolt will go from dealing 1d10 fire damage, to 2d10. at lvl 11 it'll deal 3d10 fire damage. that's one of the reasons why a paladin might take a couple of levels of sorcerer or warlock, because at, say, paladin 3, sorcerer 2, you won't have extra attack, but your cantrips will deal an extra dice of damage.

j00t said:

in BG3, cantrips scale off of whatever your characters highest mental stat is. so shadowheart's firebolt will scale off of wisdom, astarion's will scale off of int and if you have a half-elf paladin or sorcerer or bard or whatever, it'll scale off of charisma. i think in earlier versions it was identifying firebolt as an int based cantrip, but in reality it IS scaling off your highest mental stat. i don't know if new versions properly identify that or not, but that is indeed how it works

and certain cleric subclasses are meant to be casters while others are meant to be melee. but either way, a melee cleric with 18 wisdom will have the EXACT same chance to hit with a cantrip as a caster cleric with 18 wisdom. a paladin with 18 charisma will have a perfectly cromulent time hitting with a firebolt.

also, at regular intervals (the same interval as fighters extra attack) cantrips "level up." so at character level (not class level if you're multiclassing) 5, a firebolt will go from dealing 1d10 fire damage, to 2d10. at lvl 11 it'll deal 3d10 fire damage. that's one of the reasons why a paladin might take a couple of levels of sorcerer or warlock, because at, say, paladin 3, sorcerer 2, you won't have extra attack, but your cantrips will deal an extra dice of damage.

Click to expand...

Weird, I remember her firebolt having a lower hit chance than guiding bolt, so never used it. Then Sacred Flame rolls against a dex saving throw, so never really used it either, just ran into melee, which she was decent at, when respeced tempest.