Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Armadon said:

All I know is my high school students are putting their hard earned money into doge coin. Shit is getting out of hand

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Maybe crypto crash will soften the blow to normal equities since all the dumb money is going there.

LachiusTZ said:

Edit:. Every time I read a Flobee post about BTC and not ETH it nags at me. Lol

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ETH is fine if you want to make USD. Hell, its the first crypto I bought and what got me into the space. I know a lot more about this space now though and recognize that its basically king of the shitcoins. It is going to do well I expect, but its not Bitcoin. It won't do what Bitcoin is likely to do.

I see ETH (and everything else) as speculation and BTC as an investment. I believe Bitcoin will replace fiat currencies and I think it will do so much more quickly than anyone expects. I've put enough time in that I am pretty confident. Ethereum is doing a completely different thing and can't fill the role BTC does for a number of reasons.

Ethereum is centralized (check how much of it belongs to wallets with over 1k), had a significant premine distributed to insiders, relies heavily on Infura, and is moving to a consensus system that will further centralize control. The price will probably still go up a lot, but I'm not aligned with it ideologically the way I am with Bitcoin. This space is about so much more than making money. There is a monetary revolution going on, and fixing the money could fix 90%+ of our social and systemic issues.

Bad money creates bad incentives that reward bad people. ETH as "money" is just fiat 2.0 where the powerful are the ones that own the most ETH rather than nation states.

Flobee said:

ETH is fine if you want to make USD. Hell, its the first crypto I bought and what got me into the space. I know a lot more about this space now though and recognize that its basically king of the shitcoins. It is going to do well I expect, but its not Bitcoin. It won't do what Bitcoin is likely to do.

I see ETH (and everything else) as speculation and BTC as an investment. I believe Bitcoin will replace fiat currencies and I think it will do so much more quickly than anyone expects. I've put enough time in that I am pretty confident. Ethereum is doing a completely different thing and can't fill the role BTC does for a number of reasons.

Ethereum is centralized (check how much of it belongs to wallets with over 1k), had a significant premine distributed to insiders, relies heavily on Infura, and is moving to a consensus system that will further centralize control. The price will probably still go up a lot, but I'm not aligned with it ideologically the way I am with Bitcoin. This space is about so much more than making money. There is a monetary revolution going on, and fixing the money could fix 90%+ of our social and systemic issues.

Bad money creates bad incentives that reward bad people. ETH as "money" is just fiat 2.0 where the powerful are the ones that own the most ETH rather than nation states.

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Respectfully disagree with most of this.

One of the biggest indicators of a shitcoin is that it has no use case. ETH has the best use case in crypto- by far. DeFi is built on ETH- that's why companies like Visa and Mastercard are targeting ETH, not BTC. It's also why ETH has been significantly outperforming BTC for more than a year, and why whales have been rotating out of BTC and into ETH.

Arden said:

Respectfully disagree with most of this.

One of the biggest indicators of a shitcoin is that it has no use case. ETH has the best use case in crypto- by far. DeFi is built on ETH- that's why companies like Visa and Mastercard are targeting ETH, not BTC. It's also why ETH has been significantly outperforming BTC for more than a year, and why whales have been rotating out of BTC and into ETH.

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Oh yea, a lot of great development is happening on ETH. It is not useless. It in no way competes with Bitcoin IMO though, and it isn't and should never be money. It does not have the decentralized properties that it claims to have. Like I said, if you want to flip it for USD then it is a good investment. If you want to buy and hold with the expectation of long term store of value, I would suggest that it will not fill that role.

Money should not be controlled by any centralized entity. Ethereum is controlled by a centralized entity, and is moving to become even more centralized. Good project, bad money.

Bitcoin has no chance of replacing any fiat, you're out of your fucking mind. What, you think people with actual money are just going to be like, "oh well, I wasn't an early adopter, I guess all those crypto guys will just be the rich from now on!"

There's literally nothing bitcoin has that couldn't be developed by any new cryptocurrency.

Flobee said:

If you want to buy and hold with the expectation of long term store of value, I would suggest that it will not fill that role.

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I'd be interested in hearing your rationale here.

Crypto markets are still markets and the one constant in those is humans. I think the average person would do better reading up on some historic boom/bust cycles than reading technical details about the world's 400th ERC20 token. Everyone wants to make money but you do that by being where the masses aren't yet. Massive speculation by new retail investors is a classic sign of an approaching top: 1929, dot-com, the house flipping craze, it's all there in the history books. Video cards being completely impossible to buy is another that is specific to crypto (same thing happened in 2017, GTX1080s were going for more than I paid for mine on its release date and that was a year+ old card at that point).

This thread is a top signal in and of itself. Page 100-105 of this thread span June 2019 to Aug 2020. 90 more pages since then, in barely half that time.

Gravel said:

Bitcoin has no chance of replacing any fiat, you're out of your fucking mind. What, you think people with actual money are just going to be like, "oh well, I wasn't an early adopter, I guess all those crypto guys will just be the rich from now on!"

There's literally nothing bitcoin has that couldn't be developed by any new cryptocurrency.

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8+ years of ground up adoption with no real competition cannot be replicated. The community, network effects, and meme surrounding Bitcoin won't be replicated unless Bitcoin fails. This is more important than you may think.

You can fork Bitcoin code and create all the same attributes except trust in the network. Bitcoin was created specifically to resolve the issues with fiat currency. I can't see the future any better than you can, but I believe that Bitcoin has a much higher chance of doing this than most believe.

Also, I'm not sure you fully appreciate just how antiquated our current monetary system is. If a new technology is 10x better than the previous technology, it disrupts that industry. This happens consistently. I would argue Bitcoin is 10x better than our current international monetary system. Probably more than 10x.

Arden said:

I'd be interested in hearing your rationale here.

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I'm not going to write out my whole thesis on why this is true but in a nutshell:

Fiat currency is the root cause of a massive proportion of our current issues. Socially, economically, and politically. I believe it is the root cause of why everything is shitty quality and made in China, why our food sucks, why the family structure is falling apart, etc. Its a long rabbit hole, but that is the conclusion I've come to.

Central banks are responsible for the devaluation of Fiat currencies. History has proven that centralized entities ALWAYS devalue currencies eventually if given control and enough time. All fiat trends to 0.

Ethereum is not decentralized.

Bitcoin is the closest we've ever come to true decentralization.

Bitcoin has won the store of value narrative. That will play out over the next year or two IMO. The next narratives are unit of account and medium of exchange. I believe that this will be resolved on layers 2+ in Bitcoin (see lightning network)

If Bitcoin continues to survive attacks it will eat everything. Gold is first, then the bond market. This is a pretty big IF to be clear. I don't see a good future for us unless we get out of inflationary currencies. The only way to do this is to ensure that no single party is in charge. Only Bitcoin does this.

Bottom line is that there is no way that I can convince anyone to see my point of view. You're gunna have to do the work to figure out why your specific objection isn't as strong as you think. The resources are all out there. Every objection has at least been considered, many refuted. The beauty of this system is that if it works, it will reward the ones that were willing to do the work early to understand WHY it is going to work. We all buy Bitcoin at the price we deserve to buy it at.

Obligatory IMO, DYOR

EDIT: I know that you'll hear and read things that say that Ethereum, or some other coin has real value or is better than Bitcoin in some relevant way. Every other source of information in this world is feeding you bullshit, why would you expect it to be any different here? There is a reason that every Youtube shill is pushing whatever they're pushing rather than talking about Bitcoin. Disinformation is very real here just like it is everywhere else. Don't trust, verify. You do the work in Politics, why wouldn't you with your investments?

Gold vs Bitcoin debate between Frank Giustra and Michael Saylor just went down. Planning to watch this evening but just read the below live tweet thread on it. Sounds like an interesting conversation.

Araysar said:

I usually tell my brother that its the second major iteration of a technology that usually ends up hitting it big.

Yahoo was 1st but Google knocked it out of the park, MySpace was first but Facebook knocked it out of the park.

Bitcoin was first... but someone else will knock it out of the park.

It really rustles his jimmies

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if you really want to get him going, tell him jesus was first but muhammed was more successful

Los_Necros said:

your first time in crypto and you're putting money into that thing that most people already sold.

I thought about hopping on at 13 cents but beyond that no way. how anyone with dogecoin could wake up and see it at 40 cents and not sell... lol.

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I think you missed the part about the yolo play aka gambling.

I pocketed nearly $2600 profit from a short position. Anytime I make a decent return off a single play, I generally take 8-12% of it and make gamble plays. For example, my doge position. I don't give a shit if it goes down to .000000001.

But if it moons again, weeeeee.

Araysar said:

I usually tell my brother that its the second major iteration of a technology that usually ends up hitting it big.

Yahoo was 1st but Google knocked it out of the park, MySpace was first but Facebook knocked it out of the park.

Bitcoin was first... but someone else will knock it out of the park.

It really rustles his jimmies

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