Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

James

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You sound like you know what you're talking about, but you're also barreling in here with this "I know better than anyone else" attitude, letting that guy have it with both barrels. Generally most people who say "do better" after calling people idiots aren't worth listening to. I think you might be worth listening to, but you may want to tone it down a bit.

Where in the world would you get the idea that I give a fuck? I mined Ethereum in 2016 when it was under a dollar, which is clearly the future of cryptocurrencies at this point, and I'm doing just fine. Buy Truebit or don't, I don't give a fuck, the price is based on task cost, not speculation, and there are no tasks currently because it just released. Bitcoin is the past, get with the times and start earning yield on your shit.
 

Caliane

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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This is so fucking dumb, though. Obviously Ethereum can touch Bitcoin's use case, and in fact is already superseding it. Look, here's Bitcoin's use case as described in the whitepaper itself:



The only reason you think Ethereum doesn't do this already is because you do not understand it whatsoever. I don't know what possible research you could have done to come to the conclusion that Ethereum is centralized in any manner, because it's so far beyond the pale that the only thing left is to call it out for its complete stupidity. You're sitting here telling me that the decentralized finance markets already operating on Ethereum are somehow less secure than the imaginary decentralized finance powered by Bitcoin. Not gonna cut it.
he posted his "Ethereum is not decentralized" argument a few days ago.

his main points were Vitalik has too much control. holds too much himself.
And most dApps run through Infura. I believe.
 

Rajaah

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Yep, it's still my second biggest position after ETH. I won't be surprised if it hits 2$+ by the end of the year. The big question will be what to do if it does: cash out or stick. I'm still mulling how long term of an investment it is.

I went from 50/50 to all-in VET because of the short-term upside (I figured it had a lot more growth in it than Eth over the short-term, only to have Eth obliterate it anyway. I think $2 by the end of the year is possible too, we'll see. Just not sure if I want to go back to 50/50 (without calculating my losses in consolidating to a 5-10%-gain VET while Eth went up 50%, as that would be depressing). At this point I could probably short-term move my VET back to Eth for the growth-rate alone and move it back if I think VET is starting an upward climb.

VET hasn't rallied much lately, that's for sure. Every time it gets blasted back down to .16-17 it never gets past 21ish. VTHO likewise hasn't been keeping it's usual 1/10th of VET.

I'm personally huge into MATIC off-exchange now and I'm sticking with it for a while, stacking more and more coins with interest.

I think I mentioned when I went all-in with VET that it was going to probably stagnate or crash, and it kinda did lul. Now that I've got a position in Doge for some reason, that should plummet. I'd check out Truebit if it were available on any platforms I've got yet.

Where in the world would you get the idea that I give a fuck? I mined Ethereum in 2016 when it was under a dollar, which is clearly the future of cryptocurrencies at this point, and I'm doing just fine. Buy Truebit or don't, I don't give a fuck, the price is based on task cost, not speculation, and there are no tasks currently because it just released. Bitcoin is the past, get with the times and start earning yield on your shit.

The point<----------

You

Whoosh
 
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Jackie Treehorn

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I went from 50/50 to all-in VET because of the short-term upside (I figured it had a lot more growth in it than Eth over the short-term, only to have Eth obliterate it anyway. I think $2 by the end of the year is possible too, we'll see. Just not sure if I want to go back to 50/50 (without calculating my losses in consolidating to a 5-10%-gain VET while Eth went up 50%, as that would be depressing). At this point I could probably short-term move my VET back to Eth for the growth-rate alone and move it back if I think VET is starting an upward climb.



I think I mentioned when I went all-in with VET that it was going to probably stagnate or crash, and it kinda did lul. Now that I've got a position in Doge for some reason, that should plummet. I'd check out Truebit if it were available on any platforms I've got yet.



The point<----------

You

Whoosh

And speak of the devil, now it's up to 0.24, ha.
 

Tmac

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Where in the world would you get the idea that I give a fuck? I mined Ethereum in 2016 when it was under a dollar, which is clearly the future of cryptocurrencies at this point, and I'm doing just fine. Buy Truebit or don't, I don't give a fuck, the price is based on task cost, not speculation, and there are no tasks currently because it just released. Bitcoin is the past, get with the times and start earning yield on your shit.

You keep typing, so that people can keep reading, giving the impression that you care enough to put in the time and effort. No one suggested you're not doing fine or that you weren't mining in 2016. Based on what you've said thus far, I can't tell how that's even important to your point.

If you consider yourself the foremost expert of ETH on the forum bc you were ahead of the curve, just say so and add your two cents so we can all benefit. Right now all I know is that you're pissed off, but I can't tell at who, why, and what brought you in here in the first place.
 

Jackie Treehorn

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You keep typing, so that people can keep reading, giving the impression that you care enough to put in the time and effort. No one suggested you're not doing fine or that you weren't mining in 2016. Based on what you've said thus far, I can't tell how that's even important to your point.

If you consider yourself the foremost expert of ETH on the forum bc you were ahead of the curve, just say so and add your two cents so we can all benefit. Right now all I know is that you're pissed off, but I can't tell at who, why, and what brought you in here in the first place.
1620348434051.jpeg
 
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James

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Oh, this is easy then:

It is hard to get reliable data on running an Ethereum full node because nobody actually does it. The specs are high and getting higher (here is an article from 2018). The blockspace is growing exponentially which will eventually price out everyone but the most dedicated from running their own full node to validate. Plenty of folks run pruned nodes, however this does not allow one to fully validate the blockchain thus largely defeating the purpose. A lot of nodes that people do run are hosted by AWS or other cloud providers due to system requirements (again reducing decentralization)

Because you don't have to validate every single transaction to verify that the rules have been followed. You can use zero knowledge proofs to verify that at a fraction of the cost and time, allowing you to run partial nodes with full security. You bring up AWS nodes like it means a shit, look at these two charts and tell me which one has a more centralized hashrate:




Oh yea, and almost everything that runs on Ethereum runs through Infura. Using IPFS and 'decentralized' nodes (Many are hosted by infura) to validate the blockchain is great, but what good is it if nearly every single dApp that runs on Ethereum runs through Infura?

It doesn't, you are seriously misunderstanding Infura's role in the Ethereum environment. Read up on zero knowledge proofs.

Now lets talk about the much hailed move from PoW to PoS. Proof of work has been well explained and has been proven as a method to secure a blockchain basically taking advantage of wherever the cheapest power can be found. This has a number of benefits that aren't being appreciated as they get drowned out by the climate change FUD but that's another topic entirely. Proof of stake deserves being explicitly described:

All points Vitalik refutes in the linked blog from 2014.

So whoever has the most money controls the network.

Not even close to an accurate description of PoS, if you think a simple plurality is enough to "control the network" you need to do more research, again read that blog post from 2014.

Did you know that 80% of the supply is held by a relatively small amount of wallets? Note that this can be somewhat deceiving due to how exchange wallets work. You will find similar statistics about Bitcoin due to this. However Bitcoin is not moving to a consensus mechanism that gives power to those that hold the most of the asset. I hope you see how this could be problematic. Proof of stake is literally no different than our current system. Especially shady considering that when Ethereum launched it was largely premined!

Ethereum was not "largely premined," I was fucking there. This is pure BTC maximalist/crypto boomer FUD that's been long since proven as bullshit.

Vitalik and Consensys have ultimate control of the network. This is clear when you look into the DAO hack. Vitalik was able to singlehandedly stop all ETH trading on all exchanges. This is clearly not decentralized in any way shape or form. No single person can (or should ever be able to) do this in Bitcoin. He also decided that ETH "should be money" and it should have a deflationary supply cap. This was not the original intent of the network. I happen to agree that setting ETH's supply cap to slowly decrease or stay steady is a good idea for tokenomics. I'm not fool enough to be confident it will stay that way. ETH monetary policy changes at the whims of a few.

No they don't. They obviously have large influence over its development, but are you suggesting there is someone more qualified, or that they're doing anything secretive? The Ethereum core devs are the most transparent development team in the world.

The "deflationary" supply cap is implemented in EIP-1559, which is only actually deflationary when BASEFEE is > block rewards. I don't know what you mean by just up and deciding "ETH should be money," EIP-1559 solves a much deeper issue of wallets each having to guess the amount of gas needed to include in a block by introducing BASEFEE, and Ethereum was always going to issue block rewards forever/claw back supply via other methods.

Here are a bunch of examples somebody put together claiming ETH is a scam. Running into this is scared me initially as I got into crypto via ETH and still hold everything I bought. I didn't want to believe it, its just a bunch of images some asshole put together. Its probably not all true and some that is true is likely exaggerated. Unfortunately as I took the time to dig deeper I was able to confirm more and more of the claims. At this point I basically think ETH is controlled opposition to try to capture capital as is flees the traditional system and maintain as much control as possible.

You think imgur photo albums are research enough to determine Ethereum is a scam? Jesus.
 

Flobee

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Oh, this is easy then:
I'm not really interested in trying to convince you but nothing you said really refutes anything I said. I was sloppy with explaining some things like the supply cap changes (1559) as you correctly point out. My overall point is that I don't trust PoS as a consensus mechanism. I understand why you do, I don't.

I believe that the biggest opportunity that crypto as a whole produces is the ability to have a decentralized monetary system where no individual or small group have outsized influence on the monetary policy. Bitcoin does this and Ethereum does not. No other coin does. There are tons of use cases for other coins, some of them will even succeed, most of it is garbage.

Bitcoin will survive because it requires true consensus to change. Ethereum changes on the whims of a small group. In the short term this is probably fine, maybe even beneficiary. I'm not investing for the short term. In the long run the fact that nobody controls Bitcoin is why it will succeed, and other projects will be corrupted and fail. Bitcoin has the potential to survive a state level attack, you really think Ethereum can? Why do you think ETH ends up any better than USD or china-coin? Its the same principals. Its just a different group of people controlling the policy.

I don't hate ETH, but it simply isn't in the same league as Bitcoin, nothing is. That's my entire point.
 

James

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The only reason you can think that is if you're a total moron, though. Seriously, you have to be willfully blind to what Ethereum is currently providing. At any point you can deposit Ethereum into Aave, take a loan on it, buy an NFT with it, and convert it to an ERC-20. It is the backbone of a new financial sovereignty, but you think just being able to update the balance of your account is superior because you think PoS isn't as secure as PoW despite thousands of man hours of research on the subject that says otherwise?

Everyone here will be using Ethereum in 5 years, whether they like it or not.
 

Torrid

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Imagine that Satoshi was still around, still in charge of Bitcoin, and decided to fork the network to reverse a transaction because his friends had a lot of their money stolen because his friends didn't code something correctly. Imagine if Satoshi also asks that 'people stop trading' to try to prevent the hacker from selling the stolen BTC. Now lets also imagine that Satoshi wanted to change the block reward algorithm years after launch, thereby changing the number of units of BTC that will exist, but keeps changing the date at which this will happen. Now imagine that Satoshi intended to RADICALLY alter the fundamental logic behind what secures the network years after he launched it, to a system that strongly favors hoarders of the coin, of which he is one because (imagine if) Satoshi premined BTC (i.e. mined it long before he allowed anybody else to mine it) and which he sold it to fund himself making himself stupidly rich. Imagine if Bitcoin protocol upgrades were hampered by copyright and trademark disputes. Imagine if nobody (not even Satoshi) knew just how many BTC existed and that Satoshi says that auditing the blockchain is 'his biggest challenge'.
 
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James

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Jackie Treehorn

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The only reason you can think that is if you're a total moron, though. Seriously, you have to be willfully blind to what Ethereum is currently providing. At any point you can deposit Ethereum into Aave, take a loan on it, buy an NFT with it, and convert it to an ERC-20. It is the backbone of a new financial sovereignty, but you think just being able to update the balance of your account is superior because you think PoS isn't as secure as PoW despite thousands of man hours of research on the subject that says otherwise?

Everyone here will be using Ethereum in 5 years, whether they like it or not.
What's your opinion on Polygon / MATIC going forward, as I have a ton of it sitting in AAVE with a MATIC loan collecting around 18 percent interest at the moment with bonuses of wMATIC.
 

LachiusTZ

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I feel like James either has a ton of money, or raging he sold too much.
 
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James

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What's your opinion on Polygon / MATIC going forward, as I have a ton of it sitting in AAVE with a MATIC loan collecting around 18 percent interest at the moment with bonuses of wMATIC.

I'm not sure. I think zkSync/zkPorter will be the big L2, and Truebit is going to drive most big dApp development moving forward, but Uniswap is going with Optimism and I consider it to be the beating heart of DeFi right now. Stablecoin LP tokens on L2 with V3 positions? Oh yeah man, shove that shit all the way up my ass, UNFFFFF.
 
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Tmac

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I feel like James either has a ton of money, or raging he sold too much.

Yeah. It's def one of those curse of knowledge moments. Knows so much, but can't distill it all down to aktually make sense amid the "you fukkin retard lol" ad hominems.
 

Tmac

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I'm not sure. I think zkSync/zkPorter will be the big L2, and Truebit is going to drive most big dApp development moving forward, but Uniswap is going with Optimism and I consider it to be the beating heart of DeFi right now. Stablecoin LP tokens on L2 with V3 positions? Oh yeah man, shove that shit all the way up my ass, UNFFFFF.

But wut do I buuuuuuuy James James
 

James

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Truebit. Its price is literally based on tasks, and there are no tasks being issued yet.
 

Torrid

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Arguing with you is a waste of time, but I'll bite once more.

Bitcoin was worth about a few cents at the time, before anybody ever considered it a real investment, and the userbase was a tiny fraction of ETH's when it forked. This was the very early days when the basic core logic was still being worked on, which is why they could fork it so easily. Ethereum had the advantage of being able to copy and use already tested code to avoid such problems. But more importantly BTC's error was in the protocol itself, and not some user's smart contract; the contract being valid Solidity code and the hack only affecting the organization that authored the contract. This is essentially like forking the blockchain if Coinbase were hacked. Vitalik having forked the blockchain harmed the reputation of the network by violating immutability to help himself and his pals, which is why ETH Classic even exists; whereas Satoshi's fork was universally accepted immediately by everybody and mitigated harm to the network. Furthermore it's arguable that Vitalik still has this power whereas BTC can't even fork without 90% consensus for Taproot.
 

James

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Yeah. It's def one of those curse of knowledge moments. Knows so much, but can't distill it all down to aktually make sense amid the "you fukkin retard lol" ad hominems.

Look, people who argue that Bitcoin is the end-all be-all of crypto are fuckin retarded, that is the cold hard reality of the situation. I didn't make the rules.