Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,471
73,554
What would be the problem with some people holding it as an investment vehicle akin to gold or any other commodity and some people buying it in batches whenever they need to transact in it. People who use W.U don't usually keep a balance with them, they buy/send what they need when they need to.
If the global community switches to a deflationary currency like BTC, the big problems are that people are less willing to spend, less willing to take on debt, people are less able to pay debt and wages have to fall (which is very hard to do).
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
If the global community switches to a deflationary currency like BTC, the big problems are that people are less willing to spend, less willing to take on debt, people are less able to pay debt and wages have to fall (which is very hard to do).
No no, I get that point (well, by get I mean, I'll take other peoples' word for it). What I meant is, the deflationary nature of BTC makes people that treat it as a commodity inclined to hold it. There will be many people for whom BTC isn't a commodity they care or choose to hold -- the value for them would be its extremely competitive transaction fees. With more and more ATMs coming online every week, this isnt that farfetched. Buy BTC at ATM, scan code onto smartphone, send elsewhere.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,471
73,554
No no, I get that point (well, by get I mean, I'll take other peoples' word for it). What I meant is, the deflationary nature of BTC makes people that treat it as a commodity inclined to hold it. There will be many people for whom BTC isn't a commodity they care or choose to hold -- the value for them would be its extremely competitive transaction fees. With more and more ATMs coming online every week, this isnt that farfetched. Buy BTC at ATM, scan code onto smartphone, send elsewhere.
Yeah I agree, that's one of the huge advantages of BTC and I think as transactions get easier and easier you're going to see this become very common.

But a lot of pro-BTC people are hoping for much, much more from BTC. Many people believe it will eradicate government control over money supply because everyone will have their money stored in BTC and will conduct all their business in BTC. I just don't see how that's possible with such high deflation. No one is going to want to pay someone's wages or take a loan in BTC.
 

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
44,776
93,615
BTC always seemed to me like a number of very smart computer guys getting into a field(economics/government) they have no idea about.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,471
73,554
BTC always seemed to me like a number of very smart computer guys getting into a field(economics/government) they have no idea about.
Are you talking about the makers of BTC or the unwashed masses of people buying BTC? Because the makers of BTC are very smart guys, but most people using it are just internet-savvy people, not necessary smart computer guys.

Either way your point about economics/govt is a little irrelevant. Nobody was able to confidently predict where BTC would go, and nobody can confidently predict where it will go. It's not like the finance/govt experts are sitting there chuckling at a bunch of kids playing with toys in a sandbox, they are as confused as everyone else.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,471
73,554
Definitely possible. Internet users have grandiose ideas of how the internet has transformed the world, so they're susceptible to believing that an internet-currency will be successful.
 

Arative

Vyemm Raider
2,997
4,613
If the price were more stable, bitcoin would certainly work great as a payment system. With the price widely fluctuating the way it has been and the issues with a major exchange, I can see companies being turned off by it. However the reward of having low to zero cost transactions for purchases will be worth the risk for some business' who are tired of paying 3% or more per swipe. Digital currency is still in its infancy and there will be growing pains with it. I do think eventually it will be regulated in some form or another, if it isn't closed down due to banks buying off politicians to protect their swipe fees.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
If the price were more stable, bitcoin would certainly work great as a payment system. With the price widely fluctuating the way it has been and the issues with a major exchange, I can see companies being turned off by it. However the reward of having low to zero cost transactions for purchases will be worth the risk for some business' who are tired of paying 3% or more per swipe. Digital currency is still in its infancy and there will be growing pains with it. I do think eventually it will be regulated in some form or another, if it isn't closed down due to banks buying off politicians to protect their swipe fees.
I agree regarding the regulation -- I highly doubt the know your customer laws will change anytime soon. Quick google check shows Paypal at 4% + "a fixed fee" for international transactions. I'm assuming they do the currency exchange themselves at unfavorable rates. Ouch.
 

Cad

<Bronze Donator>
24,494
45,426
Somebody have a basic explanation as to how coins are transferred and how transactions take place? Are the large calculations done by miners the verifications for transactions? If so, as BT becomes more prevalent, won't the computational requirements go up?
 

Torrid

Molten Core Raider
926
611
BTC always seemed to me like a number of very smart computer guys getting into a field(economics/government) they have no idea about.
Bitcoin is an experiment. It's only until recently that it's even been taken seriously by its own developers. For years bitcoin.org labeled it 'experimental' right on the front page. If they were truly serious about bitcoin taking over the world from day 1, they would have premined a lot more. You can read stories from the guys mining in the really early days about them losing their coins because they never thought they would be worth anything.

A lot of world changing inventions started out as a 'wouldn't it be cool if we did X' project. It's also the nature of software to have long experimental/beta phases and not be bulletproof at launch. Obama learned this the hard way.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,471
73,554
Somebody have a basic explanation as to how coins are transferred and how transactions take place? Are the large calculations done by miners the verifications for transactions? If so, as BT becomes more prevalent, won't the computational requirements go up?
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong:
Coins are transferred via cryptography. Basically I have a coin and only I know its private key. I need the private key to transfer ownership to you. When I transfer ownership to you, a new private key is generated that only you know. This process is managed and recorded by a network of computers called blockchain.
Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info

The large calculations done by miners are NOT the transaction verifications (which are trivial to do). The mining is the discovery of new coins. It's like the difference between me handing you a gold nugget and you digging in the dirt to find a gold nugget. The computational requirements to transfer a coin should be irrespective of the number of coins.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,471
73,554
Hm, I always thought they were. Then do the mining calculations serve a purpose, or are they just wasted energy?
They serve as a natural way for BTC generation. But yeah it's a complete waste of energy and computing resources from a usable output. It's like botting in diablo2, lol.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
45,471
73,554
Ukraine Protestors Turn to Bitcoin to Raise Much-Needed Funds
Cool article about how BTC is being used to easily transmit funds to people in Ukraine. I guess paypal shut down transfers into the country, and I have no idea how hard it is to wire money there through a bank.

Though, I'd be pretty hesitant to send money because I saw saw some yokel holding a sign with a QR code and a Bitcoin symol on it.
 

Arative

Vyemm Raider
2,997
4,613
Hm, I always thought they were. Then do the mining calculations serve a purpose, or are they just wasted energy?
Mining also is used to verify transactions. I think the idea is as the reward for mining continues to get smaller, transactions would get larger and those verifying the transactions would share in transactions fee
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
Mining requires a trivial amount of computational power. Mining is the creation of a block. A block is a group of transactions. All the blocks from the genesis block (block 1) onward are referred to as the blockchain.

The short version is; at any point in time, all the miners are running complicated math problems trying to find a really really tiny number (but they have to find it in a certain way that is replicable). Once a miner finds this number, he grabs together as many waiting transactions as he chooses (he may want to only take ones with high transaction fees, for example), then submits his block to the network. Other miners take a look at the block and agree it is legitimate, and that block is entered upon the blockchain and the miner receives 25 bitcoins for getting that block.

Bitcoin has a 10 minute block target time -- this means, the network will regulate itself by increasing or decreasing the difficulty to ensure blocks are coming approximately every 10 minutes. Difficulty is a measure of how hard the number has to be to find. Difficulty in 2009 was very low, people were mining shittons of coins on their laptop CPUs. Now, a true arms race is occurring. Difficulty is rising exponentially because more and more people are bringing high-powered hardware online. Everyone wants to have a larger piece of the pie -- the pie being those 25 bitcoins that are minted every 10 minutes. The more hardware you have the more of that you get because you'll get more blocks.

Hm, I always thought they were. Then do the mining calculations serve a purpose, or are they just wasted energy?
I would consider them a mandatory acquiescence to the human nature. If EVERY miner unilaterally agreed to play nice and have no more than X power, then everyone mining would have an equal share of the generated coins. However, it's obvious that this isn't feasible.
 

Eidal

Molten Core Raider
2,001
213
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong:
Coins are transferred via cryptography. Basically I have a coin and only I know its private key. I need the private key to transfer ownership to you. When I transfer ownership to you, a new private key is generated that only you know. This process is managed and recorded by a network of computers called blockchain.
Bitcoin Block Explorer - Blockchain.info
You have a public/private key pair with X bitcoins. When you transfer ownership to me, you need my public key. To transfer ownership, you'll publish a transaction to the network saying ("Move coin in this public/private key pair to that public/private key pair"). The network checks to make sure you actually have the coin that you say you do. If you do, then your transaction waits for a miner to confirm by adding it to the blockchain. The blockchain is no more than every block (group of transactions) from the genesis block onward.