Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Haus

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Yes, the computational needs are definitely very serious. As I understand it, how current blockchains handle this is that they have nodes running which process transactions, and those nodes share in the transaction fee applied to each transaction. Right now, if I hop onto Metamask and want to swap out two tokens on ETH for instance, I put together that transaction and submit it, then all the nodes running have to come to consensus on it and process the transaction. When I put together the transaction based on network activity and availability of nodes/resources I have to pay a "gas fee" to fuel the transaction.
There are abstractions about how this works (like you'll hear things like Proof of Work versus Proof of Stake) but the underlying idea is that you get rewarded for having the nodes doing the work of the collective chain. Any blockchain is essentially a distributed computational platform.

In private blockchains (like the one IBM runs and sells usage of to it's logistics customers) a vendor supplied the horsepower to underpin the chain.

The needs for something big enough to run the whole stock market would be massive, but also you'd have a massive number of systems involved in such an endeavor, so that gives you a head start. On the transactions you have a gas fee, and divide that up as a payout to those doing the computational work. This would self-regulate the transaction fee because computational providers would participate so long as the reward was enough to profit from providing the service. Then you could have a commitment from certain backbone entities (like the existing stock markets) to also provide computational power and support for this blockchain. So long as no one individual controlled over half the computational power behind the blockchain then you'd be OK. If someone controls over half the computation power they could functionally create their own transactions and alter the ledger, there's been concern by some that a nation state like China, could, for instance, take over more than half the computational power (called "hash rate") of BTC which would let them just re-write the ledger since it works on a concept called "consensus" which is basically "if more than half the existing nodes agree that transaction X is valid, then it's valid.".

If you make stocks into NFTs you could also work the cost of running the network into the NFT contract. With an NFT contract you can literally say "Any time this NFT is traded a certain portion of the value is assessed as a fee and transferred back to wallet XYZ". So , for instance, any time a stock got traded they could say there is something small like a .01% transaction fee.
 

tugofpeace

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Well, I started my foray into the crypto space today. At first I used Kraken and as I was about to buy BTC, I saw the price of 103.5k but I was being charged 105.5k. Nearly 2000 in spread.

So I found Strike which had a more reasonable spread of 200-250 or so. I'm putting in about $750/month, automatic DCA.

Question though - is spread wider over the weekend? I'm wondering if I buy on weekdays if I will have to pay a lower ask relative to bid.
 
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Rangoth

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I don’t know about kraken and BTC specifically but spread absolutely changes based on supply and demand. It’s why SPY spreads are penny’s and a random 25-75$ ticker has a bigger spread. This is where market makers help actually.
 

Lambourne

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Well, I started my foray into the crypto space today. At first I used Kraken and as I was about to buy BTC, I saw the price of 103.5k but I was being charged 105.5k. Nearly 2000 in spread.

So I found Strike which had a more reasonable spread of 200-250 or so. I'm putting in about $750/month, automatic DCA.

Question though - is spread wider over the weekend? I'm wondering if I buy on weekdays if I will have to pay a lower ask relative to bid.


Spread on kraken is usually less than S10 for retail sized purchases, are you sure you looked at the right ticker? There's some derivatives that have low volume.

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Haus

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I do not even know how to get to this menu. I downloaded Kraken again but I dont see it.
This highlights what I still consider one of the biggest issues with crypto. We need easy and fluid on and off ramps between crypto and fiat. I can go to any number of places around Dallas and exchange dollars for pesos, euros, or any number of other currencies. Why is Crypto different at this point? It's an alternative currency.
 
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tugofpeace

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This highlights what I still consider one of the biggest issues with crypto. We need easy and fluid on and off ramps between crypto and fiat. I can go to any number of places around Dallas and exchange dollars for pesos, euros, or any number of other currencies. Why is Crypto different at this point? It's an alternative currency.
Well one reason I can think of is that Bitcoin is a lot more secure than other types of currency; isn't every transaction recorded via blockchain?
 

Haus

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Well one reason I can think of is that Bitcoin is a lot more secure than other types of currency; isn't every transaction recorded via blockchain?
Which still shouldn't make it that much harder. I have Electrum (Bitcoin wallet) on my phone. Any place can scan the QR code it pops up to send BTC into the wallet.

If I go to a currency exchanger I don't have to do any KYC, I had them dollars, they hand me euros, or whatever. There are even some attempts at this right now, those coinstar machines in many places can now deposit whatever you put in into BTC wallets, but you still have to jump through hoops like you were opening a damn bank account to get $50 in collected pocket change deposited somewhere as BTC.
 
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Lambourne

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I do not even know how to get to this menu. I downloaded Kraken again but I dont see it.

It's under Kraken Pro, which is just an advanced interface. Same account.

This highlights what I still consider one of the biggest issues with crypto. We need easy and fluid on and off ramps between crypto and fiat. I can go to any number of places around Dallas and exchange dollars for pesos, euros, or any number of other currencies. Why is Crypto different at this point? It's an alternative currency.

No government will let this happen, it's too much of a safe harbor for black market operations, funding of insurgents, capital flight and plain old tax evasion. The bitcoin maxis in my circle are convinced otherwise but I don't see governments giving up any control over this, in fact it's only been moving towards more control.

The onramps will always be subject to government scrutiny, same as they are with cash now. Deposit enough cash and the bank is legally required to file a Suspicious Activity report and they are forbidden to tell you that they are doing so. Even if you file a FOIA request they can't tell you.
Money exchangers aren't exempt, they won't report you for a single small transaction (like a typical tourist would make) but once you start showing up often enough they have to. Threshold is just $2000.

 
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Flobee

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No government will let this happen, it's too much of a safe harbor for black market operations, funding of insurgents, capital flight and plain old tax evasion. The bitcoin maxis in my circle are convinced otherwise but I don't see governments giving up any control over this, in fact it's only been moving towards more control.
Everything you're saying is true, however the Maxi argument is that eventually they won't have a choice. That's the optimistic viewpoint at least. The divorce of money from state and a massive reduction in the surveillance apparatus that government wield over their own population is long overdue. HOPEFULLY Bitcoin is a part of that process rather than just another tool to surveil monetary transactions. Thats a battle that is still being fought among Bitcoiners right now.

The current kerfuffle surrounding OP_RETURN is an example of this. Allow spam on the blockchain, resulting in increased storage requirements to run a nodes which leads to less running nodes, or find a way to stop it. Not 100% convinced the current proposal to just add filters to remove spam transactions is the best answer, but that's the current battle. As for me, I will just refuse to upgrade to a newer version of Bitcoin Core until they stop serving the spammers that are donating to them. That's the beauty of Bitcoin, you can run the original version of the software and still be in consensus. No need to adopt all the extra crap that others add, although it will effect the network so it still matters.

Point being the primary focus of Bitcoin is replacing a bad monetary system with an improved monetary system, the rest is noise.
 
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Lambourne

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Everything you're saying is true, however the Maxi argument is that eventually they won't have a choice. That's the optimistic viewpoint at least. The divorce of money from state and a massive reduction in the surveillance apparatus that government wield over their own population is long overdue. HOPEFULLY Bitcoin is a part of that process rather than just another tool to surveil monetary transactions. Thats a battle that is still being fought among Bitcoiners right now.

The current kerfuffle surrounding OP_RETURN is an example of this. Allow spam on the blockchain, resulting in increased storage requirements to run a nodes which leads to less running nodes, or find a way to stop it. Not 100% convinced the current proposal to just add filters to remove spam transactions is the best answer, but that's the current battle. As for me, I will just refuse to upgrade to a newer version of Bitcoin Core until they stop serving the spammers that are donating to them. That's the beauty of Bitcoin, you can run the original version of the software and still be in consensus. No need to adopt all the extra crap that others add, although it will effect the network so it still matters.

Point being the primary focus of Bitcoin is replacing a bad monetary system with an improved monetary system, the rest is noise.

I agree with the idea behind bitcoin, sound money, digital gold and all that. I just don't think it's going to happen, or more accurately be allowed to happen. For the last few decades the worldwide trend is towards more government control over everything and everyone. I don't see governments giving up control over the money as a possibility in this trend.

Maybe this trend will reverse at some point, who knows.
 
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Flobee

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I agree with the idea behind bitcoin, sound money, digital gold and all that. I just don't think it's going to happen, or more accurately be allowed to happen. For the last few decades the worldwide trend is towards more government control over everything and everyone. I don't see governments giving up control over the money as a possibility in this trend.

Maybe this trend will reverse at some point, who knows.
I get it, but isn't it pretty obvious we're going through some monumental shifts not just in the US, but across the whole world? Seems to be shifting away from centralized globohomo is in the cards. Worth remembering that we ARE the government at the end of the day. I'm optimistic, but I suspect we'll have to take our freedom, not wait for it to be given.
 
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Arden

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I agree with the idea behind bitcoin, sound money, digital gold and all that. I just don't think it's going to happen, or more accurately be allowed to happen. For the last few decades the worldwide trend is towards more government control over everything and everyone. I don't see governments giving up control over the money as a possibility in this trend.

Maybe this trend will reverse at some point, who knows.

This is the correct take. The names and titles may change, but there will always be an elite few that control the plebs, to one extent or another. It's just the way humans work.

Doesn't mean bitcoin won't be valuable- it obviously already is- but the idea that it's going to be the one and only form of money in the world is just a line to sell you something.
 
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Arden

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I got a weird text on my personal phone early last week telling me there was an attempted withdraw from my Coinbase account and if I didn't authorize it I needed to call X number immediately. Obviously, since I'm not a boomer or an idiot I didn't call, but I'm not surprised to hear there was a breach.

FWIW COIN reported that they notified all customers who were affected by the breach, but I never got any notification...

On a related note, people in this thread have occasionally asked which of the many BTC ETFs is best. I always recommend FBTC (Fidelity). One reason is because they self-custody. Of the 11ish BTC ETFs, 8 of them all custody with Coinbase...
 
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Flobee

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As these phishing attempts get more common and more focused people are going to understand why KYC/AML for an asset you can self custody is so dangerous. Just wait till they start targeting break-ins on big money holders. Its inevitable.
 

Flobee

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LOL. If this is true, imagine the revaluation out of Gold and into the only remaining viable choice for a neutral reserve asset. I assume that, if true, its too expensive to be viable for now... but if Gold is chosen as a neutral reserve asset for trade between countries its value will skyrocket... and then? Buy Bitcoin

The ALICE analysis shows that, during Run 2 of the LHC (2015–2018), about 86 billion gold nuclei were created at the four major experiments. In terms of mass, this corresponds to just 29 picograms (2.9 ×10-11 g). Since the luminosity in the LHC is continually increasing thanks to regular upgrades to the machines, Run 3 has produced almost double the amount of gold that Run 2 did, but the total still amounts to trillions of times less than would be required to make a piece of jewellery. While the dream of medieval alchemists has technically come true, their hopes of riches have once again been dashed.

 
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