Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Rangoth

Rangoth

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Not sure how many care, but just a forum FYI. I got the official email that Nexo is back in the US and they have reactivated my account!

I loved that platform as it was a pretty reliable place to hold my crypto(not getting in to debate over cold storage or whatever). I *did* earn real "in-kind" crypto interest there. It actually paid out, wasn't a scam.

It seems like everything, the rates have gone down a bit from the glory days, but because it was "in-kind" and not in USD it did scale fairly well on rising assets like BTC.

Anyway, carry on, just thought I'd share.
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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Tuco said:
How so?
Click to expand...
Duck Dynasty GIF by DefyTV
 
U

unhappyendings

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Arden said:
Openclaw going to bring crypto roaring back in a big way.
Click to expand...

My immediate thought was crypto in claw machines but quickly realized those technologies do not go together followed by that might be the brilliance of it.

The claw is our master. The claw chooses who will go and who will stay.
 
Flobee

Flobee

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I have to presume this is due to agent-to-agent payments. People are already having their bots open lightning wallets and sending them Sats to pay for various tasks. Also a bounty system for AI agents to hire humans for various work was spun up recently. Internet native money is going to be a thing, which should be super obvious to anyone

EDIT: RentAHuman.ai - AI Agents Hire Humans for Physical Tasks
 
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Kirun

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"AI" has been in charge of hiring at most businesses for a solid 2 or so years now already. They pretty much all use AI filtering for their application process at a minimum.
 
Jysin

Jysin

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Coinbase:

13:16 COIN Notes customers are currently unable to buy, sell or transfer at this time; Says working on the issue and that customer funds are safe - Source TradeTheNews.com
 
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Arden

Arden

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Tuco said:
How so?
Click to expand...

TLDR: End of the Internet as we know it is coming soon. Blockchain tech is a potential (and the best) fix.

The issue that Nikita Bier and others have brought up regarding OpenCLaw is that AI has basically crossed the threshold where autonomous agents can act at scale across real communication channels. The fact that AI can read messages, respond intelligently, create accounts, and operate 24/7 at near zero cost is gonna break shit wide open. The fear isn't better phishing, it's channel collapse. When you can't tell if either side is human and sending a million perfectly personalized messages cost almost nothing, open networks become unusable.

But the deeper issue is identity. Right now, digital identity is cheap to create and easy to discard. There are no consequences (no lasting ones anyway) to misbehavior, and no persistent reputation that follows you across platforms. Open claw agents amplify this weakness. If agents can operate convincingly at scale, then systems without strong identity and reputational persistence are structurally extremely fragile.

Blockchain tech and infrastructure is the best fix to this. I'm not talking about a million shitty meme tokens. I'm talking about as a primitive layer. Cryptographic identity, (wallet-based keys), programmable micropayments, and portable reputation are things blockchains are natively built to handle. If sending a message to a non-contact required a tiny on-chain payment, spam economics implode overnight. The current banking system could in no way handle such a thing.... but blockchain could and does already.

Likewise, if identities are tied to durable cryptographic keys with accumulated reputation, disposable bot accounts become expensive and difficult to create and maintain. You don't need ideology, you need economic friction and verifiable identity. Blockchains provide both.

This is honestly why I became interested in blockchain technology in the first place. It became really obvious to me years ago that things like truth, trust, and transparency were going to become top online commodities in the very near future. We've been drifting towards that world for a while, but OpenClaw is basically a huge leap towards those things becoming mandatory.

Again, if you know anything about blockchain tech, you know that it's perfectly suited for this environment. Why do you think the Bigs have been talking about putting literally everything onchain for the past couple years.

This doesn’t mean “crypto fixes everything” or that big tech won’t try to solve this centrally. They absolutely will. But if the future of the internet requires provable identity, programmable cost, and global micropayments at scale, decentralized ledger systems are structurally ideal.
 
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Tuco

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Arden said:
Blockchain tech and infrastructure is the best fix to this. I'm not talking about a million shitty meme tokens. I'm talking about as a primitive layer. Cryptographic identity, (wallet-based keys), programmable micropayments, and portable reputation are things blockchains are natively built to handle. If sending a message to a non-contact required a tiny on-chain payment, spam economics implode overnight. The current banking system could in no way handle such a thing.... but blockchain could and does already.
Click to expand...
If requiring an on-chain payment is a solution to this problem, isn't an account registration with a fee using conventional means not also a solution?

I guess I don't understand how the issue of AI agents will cause the problem of messaging to scale such that microtransactions is the answer.
 
Flobee

Flobee

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Arden said:
TLDR: End of the Internet as we know it is coming soon. Blockchain tech is a potential (and the best) fix.

The issue that Nikita Bier and others have brought up regarding OpenCLaw is that AI has basically crossed the threshold where autonomous agents can act at scale across real communication channels. The fact that AI can read messages, respond intelligently, create accounts, and operate 24/7 at near zero cost is gonna break shit wide open. The fear isn't better phishing, it's channel collapse. When you can't tell if either side is human and sending a million perfectly personalized messages cost almost nothing, open networks become unusable.

But the deeper issue is identity. Right now, digital identity is cheap to create and easy to discard. There are no consequences (no lasting ones anyway) to misbehavior, and no persistent reputation that follows you across platforms. Open claw agents amplify this weakness. If agents can operate convincingly at scale, then systems without strong identity and reputational persistence are structurally extremely fragile.

Blockchain tech and infrastructure is the best fix to this. I'm not talking about a million shitty meme tokens. I'm talking about as a primitive layer. Cryptographic identity, (wallet-based keys), programmable micropayments, and portable reputation are things blockchains are natively built to handle. If sending a message to a non-contact required a tiny on-chain payment, spam economics implode overnight. The current banking system could in no way handle such a thing.... but blockchain could and does already.

Likewise, if identities are tied to durable cryptographic keys with accumulated reputation, disposable bot accounts become expensive and difficult to create and maintain. You don't need ideology, you need economic friction and verifiable identity. Blockchains provide both.

This is honestly why I became interested in blockchain technology in the first place. It became really obvious to me years ago that things like truth, trust, and transparency were going to become top online commodities in the very near future. We've been drifting towards that world for a while, but OpenClaw is basically a huge leap towards those things becoming mandatory.

Again, if you know anything about blockchain tech, you know that it's perfectly suited for this environment. Why do you think the Bigs have been talking about putting literally everything onchain for the past couple years.

This doesn’t mean “crypto fixes everything” or that big tech won’t try to solve this centrally. They absolutely will. But if the future of the internet requires provable identity, programmable cost, and global micropayments at scale, decentralized ledger systems are structurally ideal.
Click to expand...
To be clear, this use case is only really valid if the "Blockchain" has finite units and can't be counterfeit, thus the payments for communication are actually valuable. This is the end of the free Internet and the beginning of the pay for use internet.

You'll likely have 2 choices:

1. Opt in to the walled garden with your government issued digital ID where every activity is tracked and stamped with your confirmed identity. This has all the obvious drawbacks of censorship, coercion, and a pervasive chilling effect on free speech when your entire life can be shut down with a click of a button. CBDC fears largely fall in this camp.

2. The system quoted above. All transactions will be stamped by a digital wallet transaction attached to a pseudonymous identity, not so different than the current internet. These identities can be abandoned as needed and can obviously be doxxed and run into similar issues as option 1, but obviously dramatically more freedom for those willing to work for it. Onus falls on individuals to protect their privacy.

Both options will likely exist at the same time and individuals will have to make a choice. Most will probably have a foot in both worlds. Internet use will no longer be free, but that's a good thing because the current model productized the users and that's the core cause of so many issues currently. Worth keeping in mind that the ones that are pushing AI and creating this spam problem are also likely the same that will benefit from the digital panopticon we're being pushed into.

Buy Bitcoin.
 
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Flobee

Flobee

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Tuco said:
If requiring an on-chain payment is a solution to this problem, isn't an account registration with a fee using conventional means not also a solution?

I guess I don't understand how the issue of AI agents will cause the problem of messaging to scale such that microtransactions is the answer.
Click to expand...
Trust. Your solution is centralized and requires trust. Institutions are currently burning all of that currency at an incredible rate.

CBDCs and digital IDs are exactly this and your logic is exactly what you're supposed to look for. Someone to solve it for you, which they will 100% do
 
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Tuco

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Flobee said:
Trust. Your solution is centralized and requires trust. Institutions are currently burning all of that currency at an incredible rate.

CBDCs and digital IDs are exactly this and your logic is exactly what you're supposed to look for. Someone to solve it for you, which they will 100% do
Click to expand...
Sure.

I trust my bank, my investment accounts, my work accounts, github, my gaming accounts even hives of villainy and scum like this one. How do AI agents change that in a way that is solved with a blockchain microtransaction?
 
Arden

Arden

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Tuco said:
If requiring an on-chain payment is a solution to this problem, isn't an account registration with a fee using conventional means not also a solution?

I guess I don't understand how the issue of AI agents will cause the problem of messaging to scale such that microtransactions is the answer.
Click to expand...

That would help, but it doesn’t solve the whole problem.

A one-time registration fee is a fixed cost. Spammers amortize fixed costs easily. If I pay $5 to register an account and then send 5 million messages, that fee becomes irrelevant.
The spam problem isn’t account creation anymore- it’s message scale. AI agents don’t need thousands of accounts. They need a few accounts that can send massive volumes of hyper-personalized messages.

Then there's the issue of using traditional payment rails for sub-cent transactions:

- Credit card fees are too high
- ACH is too slow
- Global interoperability is messy
- Chargebacks exist

Blockchains natively can do tiny, irreversible, instant payments programmatically. That’s what makes them ideal in this context.

As to your second question, AI agents destroy the marginal cost of content creation. Old spam was cheap but dumb. It was easy to filter because it was generic. AI spam can now be personalized, conversational, adaptive, and basically indistinguishable from a human. And the cost to generate it keeps trending toward zero.

When the marginal cost of producing a message is near zero, asshole spammers will push volume until the economics stop working. If sending messages is free and generating them is free, the only natural equilibrium is massive volume.

That’s why the conversation shifts toward per-action friction. It’s not about registration fees- those are fixed costs and easy to amortize. The problem is marginal cost per message.. If that stays at zero while AI makes generation free, volume explodes. If you reintroduce even a tiny marginal cost per message, you change the incentive structure.
 
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Tuco

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Arden said:
That would help, but it doesn’t solve the whole problem.

A one-time registration fee is a fixed cost. Spammers amortize fixed costs easily. If I pay $5 to register an account and then send 5 million messages, that fee becomes irrelevant.
The spam problem isn’t account creation anymore- it’s message scale. AI agents don’t need thousands of accounts. They need a few accounts that can send massive volumes of hyper-personalized messages.

Then there's the issue of using traditional payment rails for sub-cent transactions:

- Credit card fees are too high
- ACH is too slow
- Global interoperability is messy
- Chargebacks exist

Blockchains natively can do tiny, irreversible, instant payments programmatically. That’s what makes them ideal in this context.

As to your second question, AI agents destroy the marginal cost of content creation. Old spam was cheap but dumb. It was easy to filter because it was generic. AI spam can now be personalized, conversational, adaptive, and basically indistinguishable from a human. And the cost to generate it keeps trending toward zero.

When the marginal cost of producing a message is near zero, asshole spammers will push volume until the economics stop working. If sending messages is free and generating them is free, the only natural equilibrium is massive volume.

That’s why the conversation shifts toward per-action friction. It’s not about registration fees- those are fixed costs and easy to amortize. The problem is marginal cost per message.. If that stays at zero while AI makes generation free, volume explodes. If you reintroduce even a tiny marginal cost per message, you change the incentive structure.
Click to expand...
If you nerds think I'm going to pay a millisatoshi per shitpost on this forum, you got another thing coming. tbh I welcome our AI overlords, should improve the discourse overall even as they sneak advertisements into their messages about burst DPS.
 
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Arden

Arden

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Tuco said:
If you nerds think I'm going to pay a millisatoshi per shitpost on this forum, you got another thing coming. tbh I welcome our AI overlords, should improve the discourse overall even as they sneak advertisements into their messages about burst DPS.
Click to expand...

I know you're joking, but the idea is that all that shit will be automated.

You'll keep a baseline small amount of money in an account tied to your persona. Deductions will be automatic, but so will the refund at the end of the month (or whatever time frame) that refunds all your deductions, up to a certain threshold. Normal people will never even get close to the normal threshold.

Normal people will never even see the deductions/refunds- all that stuff will be happening automatically in the background. It will only affect spammers who go beyond the threshold.

by the by this is another advantage of crypto- smart contracts/smart money.


Edit:

I'm sure most people here are old enough to remember the early days of email. Spam became an issue almost immediately. One of the first suggestions to stop it was to charge some de minimis amount per email- like a penny or whatever.

It would have 100% stopped spam, but there were lots of problems with the idea. First, even 1 penny was too much for most people to stomach. Second, there was no easy way to implement it.

Instead, tech figured out decent (but not perfect) anti-spam measures, and we've been using that system since.

The point of all this is that that system is about to get nuked.

We may come up with some other new system to combat the issue, but crypto/blockchain gives us a readymade and elegant solution in hand.
 
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Flobee

Flobee

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Arden said:
I'm sure most people here are old enough to remember the early days of email. Spam became an issue almost immediately. One of the first suggestions to stop it was to charge some de minimis amount per email- like a penny or whatever.

It would have 100% stopped spam, but there were lots of problems with the idea. First, even 1 penny was too much for most people to stomach. Second, there was no easy way to implement it.

Instead, tech figured out decent (but not perfect) anti-spam measures, and we've been using that system since.

The point of all this is that that system is about to get nuked.

We may come up with some other new system to combat the issue, but crypto/blockchain gives us a readymade and elegant solution in hand.
Click to expand...
This was Hashcash created by Adam Back and referenced in the Bitcoin Whitepaper and was a primary influence in the creation of the Proof-of-work system combined with a difficulty adjustment Satoshi invented, solving the Byzantine General problem. Worth understanding at a basic level if you're into this space as the idea is fundamental to how all this works.

Hashcash - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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