Bitcoins/Litecoins/Virtual Currencies

Arden

Vyemm Raider
3,112
2,424
This was Hashcash created by Adam Back and referenced in the Bitcoin Whitepaper and was a primary influence in the creation of the Proof-of-work system combined with a difficulty adjustment Satoshi invented, solving the Byzantine General problem. Worth understanding at a basic level if you're into this space as the idea is fundamental to how all this works.


Basically a pow source of friction instead of a monetary one.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
46,180
166,580
To be clear, this use case is only really valid if the "Blockchain" has finite units and can't be counterfeit, thus the payments for communication are actually valuable. This is the end of the free Internet and the beginning of the pay for use internet.

You'll likely have 2 choices:

1. Opt in to the walled garden with your government issued digital ID where every activity is tracked and stamped with your confirmed identity. This has all the obvious drawbacks of censorship, coercion, and a pervasive chilling effect on free speech when your entire life can be shut down with a click of a button. CBDC fears largely fall in this camp.

2. The system quoted above. All transactions will be stamped by a digital wallet transaction attached to a pseudonymous identity, not so different than the current internet. These identities can be abandoned as needed and can obviously be doxxed and run into similar issues as option 1, but obviously dramatically more freedom for those willing to work for it. Onus falls on individuals to protect their privacy.

Both options will likely exist at the same time and individuals will have to make a choice. Most will probably have a foot in both worlds. Internet use will no longer be free, but that's a good thing because the current model productized the users and that's the core cause of so many issues currently. Worth keeping in mind that the ones that are pushing AI and creating this spam problem are also likely the same that will benefit from the digital panopticon we're being pushed into.

Buy Bitcoin.
I'd like to see some kind of solution where instead of Google or Apple selling your digital information for a few cents, suddenly people are selling their own information as needed to fund their own "free internet" use. Solves two problems.

I literally just thought of this on the spot reading the last few posts though, so don't go jumping down my throat about repercussions I haven't considered.
 
  • 2Worf
  • 1Like
Reactions: 2 users

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,148
3,668
I'd like to see some kind of solution where instead of Google or Apple selling your digital information for a few cents, suddenly people are selling their own information as needed to fund their own "free internet" use. Solves two problems.

I literally just thought of this on the spot reading the last few posts though, so don't go jumping down my throat about repercussions I haven't considered.
This was actually part of Andrew Yang's platform when he was running for President during Democratic Primary pre-2020. Its something I agree about to this day, people should own their data and be allowed to sell it if they choose to do so and the proceeds should go to them. How would that look practically and what are the ramifications? I don't know tbh.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Furry

Email Loading Please Wait
<Gold Donor>
27,436
40,489
The problem with btc is it needs to grow exponentially. I've talked about it before, but if it doesn't grow exponentially, eventually we'll hit a calamity where consensus is too expensive to maintain. That's a much more salient threat to its stability than quantum.

We're already at a point where its more expensive to mine than the coin is worth, so miners are paying money to promote btc's stability. At the next halving the situation will only get worse.
 
  • 1Seriously?
Reactions: 1 user

Kithani

Vyemm Raider
2,047
2,863
This was actually part of Andrew Yang's platform when he was running for President during Democratic Primary pre-2020. Its something I agree about to this day, people should own their data and be allowed to sell it if they choose to do so and the proceeds should go to them. How would that look practically and what are the ramifications? I don't know tbh.
It would honestly look no different than it does today.

“Google, IOS, whatever app is now a $X subscription service… or you can allow us access to your data and it becomes free” and everyone will choose the free option

The system is already in place in some ways like when you sign up for a grocery card to get discounts (while they mine the purchasing data from the card)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Haus

I am Big Balls!
<Gold Donor>
18,722
77,318
The problem with btc is it needs to grow exponentially. I've talked about it before, but if it doesn't grow exponentially, eventually we'll hit a calamity where consensus is too expensive to maintain. That's a much more salient threat to its stability than quantum.

We're already at a point where its more expensive to mine than the coin is worth, so miners are paying money to promote btc's stability. At the next halving the situation will only get worse.
Another problem I see with as much as everybody is clamoring over the CLARITY act and other Crypto legislation is that the promise of Crypto and DeFi was to give a financial system not in the complete capture and control of the "Big Bank World".

And who is sitting at the table with as much or more influence than the crypto market? The big banks. If BTC just becomes another value transport that the banks can mostly monopolize access to and regulate, then it loses (in my opinion) it's core value prop.
 

Sheriff Cad

scientia potentia est
<Nazi Janitors>
31,149
73,889
The problem with btc is it needs to grow exponentially. I've talked about it before, but if it doesn't grow exponentially, eventually we'll hit a calamity where consensus is too expensive to maintain. That's a much more salient threat to its stability than quantum.

We're already at a point where its more expensive to mine than the coin is worth, so miners are paying money to promote btc's stability. At the next halving the situation will only get worse.
I mined a lot in 2016-2019, and the way it worked then was when mining was profitable, tons of people bought equipment and started mining, hashrate goes up, difficulty goes up, profit goes down. BTC crashes or people stop mining because it's not profitable, profits go back up, it sucks more people into mining, etc etc.

It wasn't profitable even then unless you got advantaged electricity rates or you've had your equipment a while (which of course means it's efficiency per kwh goes down against the current hashrate/difficulty...).

Has any of that changed?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Arden

Vyemm Raider
3,112
2,424
We are about to see so much cool shit happen.

Screenshot 2026-02-13 110817 - Copy.png


Right up until AI wipes us off the face of the planet.
 

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,148
3,668
The problem with btc is it needs to grow exponentially. I've talked about it before, but if it doesn't grow exponentially, eventually we'll hit a calamity where consensus is too expensive to maintain. That's a much more salient threat to its stability than quantum.

We're already at a point where its more expensive to mine than the coin is worth, so miners are paying money to promote btc's stability. At the next halving the situation will only get worse.
If mining becomes unprofitable less people mine, difficulty adjusts down, and the issue resolved itself. There is obviously a price point where this becomes untenable but you can look at hashrate and see we're nowhere close to this. BTC is so much more robust than you're giving it credit for here.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Furry

Email Loading Please Wait
<Gold Donor>
27,436
40,489
If mining becomes unprofitable less people mine, difficulty adjusts down, and the issue resolved itself. There is obviously a price point where this becomes untenable but you can look at hashrate and see we're nowhere close to this. BTC is so much more robust than you're giving it credit for here.
The problem is that the influences behind computing growth and efficiency have mostly drained up, which leaves price point a much bigger factor in consensus than it was intended to be originally. At some point with factors as they are, bitcoin will reach the danger zone of failing to maintain the necessary security.

It’s still a longer term problem, but the hash rate growth has started to invert, and AI is going to further steal computes.
 

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,148
3,668
The problem is that the influences behind computing growth and efficiency have mostly drained up, which leaves price point a much bigger factor in consensus than it was intended to be originally. At some point with factors as they are, bitcoin will reach the danger zone of failing to maintain the necessary security.

It’s still a longer term problem, but the hash rate growth has started to invert, and AI is going to further steal computes.
Price only effects miner efficiency in this context, not consensus. The danger, to the degree it exists, is that the mining reward would fail to incentivise enough hash to secure the chain, leaving it vulnerable to a 51% attack which would allow double spends or to otherwise reverse transactions and control block space.

With ASICs this also requires an attacker to have specific hardware designed to run SHA-256 in order to compete and create that much hash. This is not the hardware that AI is using, but it does compete for energy yes.

Stated differently hashrate could drop significantly without endangering Bitcoin. It's better if it doesn't, and I don't expect to for any sustained period of time... But this isn't the problem you're saying it is.

There are long term potential issues with mining, but this isn't really one of them. Security budget via decreasing block rewards is much more concerning if block space remains as cheap as it is now for example.
 

Seananigans

Honorary Shit-PhD
<Gold Donor>
15,515
39,417
If mining becomes unprofitable less people mine, difficulty adjusts down, and the issue resolved itself. There is obviously a price point where this becomes untenable but you can look at hashrate and see we're nowhere close to this. BTC is so much more robust than you're giving it credit for here.

I don’t understand why that’s even relevant. If the supply stopped increasing today (it will eventually anyway), it wouldn’t change anything about BTC’s inherent strength as a store of value and money.
 

Furry

Email Loading Please Wait
<Gold Donor>
27,436
40,489
I don’t understand why that’s even relevant. If the supply stopped increasing today (it will eventually anyway), it wouldn’t change anything about BTC’s inherent strength as a store of value and money.
You don’t seem to understand that btc is a living ledger and that hash rate is effectively its security. I won’t disagree with flobees assessment that this will take a long time to realize, but he’s also right to agree with me that the hash rate inversion is and should be concerning. Were decades off from an attack likely being possible, but if people see the possibility of it becoming inevitable money will flee aggressively before that happens.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,148
3,668
I don’t understand why that’s even relevant. If the supply stopped increasing today (it will eventually anyway), it wouldn’t change anything about BTC’s inherent strength as a store of value and money.
With current block space that would essentially kill mining because the financial incentives disappear. In that scenario you either need actors not motivated by profit mining (think governments if BTC were a concern for national security for example), you need block space to be consistently full so the fees are sufficient to incentivise mining, or you need the value of BTC to be so high that what fees are in a block are sufficient incentive.

This is one of the actual risks to long term Bitcoin security that isn't just FUD at this point.
 

Seananigans

Honorary Shit-PhD
<Gold Donor>
15,515
39,417
With current block space that would essentially kill mining because the financial incentives disappear. In that scenario you either need actors not motivated by profit mining (think governments if BTC were a concern for national security for example), you need block space to be consistently full so the fees are sufficient to incentivise mining, or you need the value of BTC to be so high that what fees are in a block are sufficient incentive.

This is one of the actual risks to long term Bitcoin security that isn't just FUD at this point.

Yeah I admittedly lack deep knowledge of this specific aspect. BTC is intended to have a final endpoint where all 21 million exists and nothing is mineable, right? I’m not understanding why it was designed like that if no mining means the system falls apart.
 

Sheriff Cad

scientia potentia est
<Nazi Janitors>
31,149
73,889
With current block space that would essentially kill mining because the financial incentives disappear. In that scenario you either need actors not motivated by profit mining (think governments if BTC were a concern for national security for example), you need block space to be consistently full so the fees are sufficient to incentivise mining, or you need the value of BTC to be so high that what fees are in a block are sufficient incentive.

This is one of the actual risks to long term Bitcoin security that isn't just FUD at this point.
They will increase the transaction fees to protect the network when mining rewards disappear. Whether this causes the network to implode or not remains to be seen.
 

Flobee

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,148
3,668
Yeah I admittedly lack deep knowledge of this specific aspect. BTC is intended to have a final endpoint where all 21 million exists and nothing is mineable, right? I’m not understanding why it was designed like that if no mining means the system falls apart.
Because if there was a block reward forever then there wouldn't be a supply cap. The idea is that the transact fees should be high enough by that point where block rewards won't be needed, or as I stated earlier actors with other incentives do the mining.

Block reward is supply inflation. Halvings move inflation toward zero exponentially.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Sheriff Cad

scientia potentia est
<Nazi Janitors>
31,149
73,889
Yeah I admittedly lack deep knowledge of this specific aspect. BTC is intended to have a final endpoint where all 21 million exists and nothing is mineable, right? I’m not understanding why it was designed like that if no mining means the system falls apart.
Yea, sometime around 2140, mining rewards would disappear.

Which just means the other source of miner revenue (transaction fees) would have to increase. They may have to do this earlier as the mining rewards decrease from future halvings.