Board Games

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,283
42,305
Looking forward to board game nights w/ my friends resuming next month. The dynamic will be interesting, because after a year of Tabletop simulator nobody's going to want to setup a game for 45 minutes ever again, lol.

Right before the pandemic I bought a full set of Marvel Legendary cards for $200 - a steal - and now I never want to touch the things again due to the hassle of organizing and transporting them, lol.
That’s the best thing about Dice Throne. It’s like 30 seconds from opening the box to playing. Pick a character, shuffle your cards and go.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users

Derpa

Trakanon Raider
1,986
635
Oof I spent to much on board games this month lol, finished my darkest dungeon and shadows of brimstone pledges, need to finish my epic seven pledge and picked up Dice throne season 1 rerolled.....and still want to pick up bloodborne.
 

Synj

Dystopian Dreamer
<Gold Donor>
7,886
34,488
I’m moving soon and I’m cleaning house and simply don’t have the time or people to play with right now.

38C1FED9-897E-48DF-83C6-09A8ED5CE7FC.jpeg


Free to a good home but you pay the shipping. If you’re interested /random 1-100 for each one and I’ll announce winner on Monday.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,283
42,305
Battle lore is pretty fun, my dad and I played that off and on for a couple years. Nice giveaway 👍
 

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,283
42,305
I just watched some videos on how to play Eclipse Second Dawn and now I want it really bad but it's impossible to find. Sad times.
Did you check if there is a Tabletop Simulator version? I know it’s not the same as physical but TTS can be great for things like stuff not existing anymore. It’s also nice not having to store things, put stuff away, etc.
 

Mountain Biker

Trakanon Raider
260
127
For some reason I just can't get into digital board games. I guess I place high value on the in-person aspect of board gaming.

I did find that they are doing a reprint that should be available in the US in late August. I just have to convince the wife that a $150 board game is worth it (it totally is!).
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,106
30,194
I just watched some videos on how to play Eclipse Second Dawn and now I want it really bad but it's impossible to find. Sad times.
We have played it a bunch and its fun, but has two major issues that keep it from being perfect. First, if you don't draw the right systems on the first turn or two, you are pretty much out of the game (worse with some factions) from the get go. Second, the combat can degenerate into who rolls 6s first really quickly with how people tend to stack tech, but thankfully its rare for major prolonged wars to happen (mostly just last turn snipes).

That aside, its a much more streamlined and easier to play game than Twilight Imperium and takes way less time. Still waiting on Hyperspace to be released, but this is currently my favorite 4x game out there, other than scythe.

Other games my group has taken up lately:
Root- Surprisingly fun, despite some harsh critics out there. Especially true when you realize despite the cutesy animal graphics, its basically a communism revolution murder simulator.

Scythe- With the extra factions, this game is a blast and easy to keep fresh if you have the modular boards and extra cards. It is also arguably one of the fastest to play games of its kind, with most of our games being done in under 2 hours lately.

Fallout Shelter- Simple, but fun and an inexpensive game.

Godzilla Tokyo War- This is an incredible game for the 20 dollar price tag and loads of fun.

Agricola (2016)- With the extras, this game is long but fun because people can enjoy it even when someone else is running away with it.

Pipeline- Not as brain burner as one might think, once you play it. Very cut throat though. Good euro style economics game, like power grid on steroids.

Cubitos- The wives love this game, though its pretty simple. Dice bag builder with a race component, with some Yahtzee mechanics tossed in.

Space Invaders- Wife got this as a kick starter. It is ok, but could have been so much more interesting.

Heroes of Land Sea and Air- My third favorite 4x game. Our whole group collectively agreed to be much more aggressive and the games got a lot closer and more interesting as a result. Our last four player game everyone was fighting constantly and ended the game within 3 points of each other.

Mystic Vale- Great for scratching the MtG itch without going broke doing so. Plays simple enough that the wives like it, but has sort of an issue with the runnaway winner thing.

Orleans- Got the alternate board and events and holy shit is this game way more fun. Amazing what a little head to head fuckery can do for a worker placement game.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Guurn

<Bronze Donator>
5,960
30,648
Looks like I'm out of my Frosthaven pledge. Saves a bundle and they are way late anyhow and taking even more time due to story rewrites. I'm kind of glad really since I like Gloomhaven just fine as it is.

Contrast that with Townsfolk Tussel. They are right on time and their updates reflect it's importance to them. I know Gloomhaven is an amazing game and Frosthaven will likely be more, but who needs more after 80 scenarios. I'm in on Summoner Wars Second Edition Master Set. Maybe I'll use the savings for a year of updates on that.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,106
30,194
Consider yourself smart on that. Isaac, the main designer just read off a Marxist manifesto about hiring a "Diversity Sensitivity Specialist" to help him make the story less harmful to the SJW snowflakes. I am not kidding.

Wife was bitching about WokeHaven all day, though the thread was comedy gold mixed with a lot of virtue signaling. She cancelled her pledge immediately. Some blue hair must have let that guy get stinkfinger in exchange for joining her religion, because that guy went balls deep into the SJW shit. Either that or they fucked up and overpromised on production and they did this to get half the backers to drop to avoid the bad press of not delivering (and bonus they can now blame it on racism or something).
 
  • 4Like
  • 1Barf
Reactions: 4 users

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,283
42,305
Consider yourself smart on that. Isaac, the main designer just read off a Marxist manifesto about hiring a "Diversity Sensitivity Specialist" to help him make the story less harmful to the SJW snowflakes. I am not kidding.

Wife was bitching about WokeHaven all day, though the thread was comedy gold mixed with a lot of virtue signaling. She cancelled her pledge immediately. Some blue hair must have let that guy get stinkfinger in exchange for joining her religion, because that guy went balls deep into the SJW shit. Either that or they fucked up and overpromised on production and they did this to get half the backers to drop to avoid the bad press of not delivering (and bonus they can now blame it on racism or something).
Wow you weren’t kidding. Just fucking pathetic.

They also said they refunded people who don’t think black lives matter. I wonder if that was willing refunds or they forced them to.

Hello! Today we're going to get right into a discussion of some news I'm really excited about. I didn't want to spend too much time talking about other stuff, but rest assured that progress is still being made on all fronts of finishing up this project, and I'll have more updates on all of that next time.

For now, I want to talk about some developments that are really going to improve the overall narrative of the game. It's a bit of a long discussion, so if you find yourself not reading all the way through, at the very least, make sure that you read the last section (starting with “And finally”) before you comment.

Alright, so last month, we brought James Mendez Hodes onto the Frosthaven team to do cultural consultant work, which I could not be more pleased about. If you have the time, I'd highly recommend watching this Shelf Stories video or listening to this episode of Ludologyhe was in, where he explains the importance of cultural consultants.

In a nutshell, he is looking through all the narrative of Frosthaven and at all of the different cultures depicted within, and he is making sure everything is internally consistent and that it isn't co-opting any real-world terms or ideas that may be harmful to players or any real-world cultures. It's not just about pointing out problems, but also collaboratively coming up with solutions that expand and strengthen the narrative. It has been an enjoyable process that not only makes the game more ethical and welcoming to a wider audience, but also simply just makes it better.

But I may be getting ahead of myself. First of all, you may be thinking, "What does real-world cultural sensitivity have to do with a made-up fantasy world?" Well, back when I first sat down to create the world of Gloomhaven, my naïve self was right there with you. My general thought process was, “I am creating my own fantasy world completely divorced from reality, and so I can do whatever I want with the peoples in this world. There's no risk of harming anyone, because it's not real.”

This is a big problem, however, because nothing is created in a vacuum. Everything we do is stamped with our own biases and influences. And while the intent may be to not harm, our biases have a tendency to cause harm anyway.

If this is all sounding a little abstract, let's talk about some specific ways in which I fell down on Gloomhaven. I think one of the most obvious ones is my use of the word “race”. “Race” has, of course, been used extensively throughout the fantasy genre as a way to group different peoples, to the point where it is just second nature. But when you stop and think about it, it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

“Race” is generally not even a useful delineation of peoples in our reality. It is much more precise to classify someone's culture or ethnicity. And even if we wanted to use the term in a fantasy reality in the same context that people in our reality mistakenly do, that doesn't work either. The Savvas are sentient rocks given life by some mysterious divine force. They aren't a different race from humans. I'm not even sure the words species or genus would do the trick.

And, yeah, sure, you can just go back to the mentality that it's your fantasy world and you can do whatever you want. Maybe the word “race” has a different meaning in my fantasy reality, but the catch is that people in our reality are the ones playing and experiencing the game, and by using the term “race”, I am not only reinforcing this outdated way of delineating people, but I'm also reinforcing the idea that these delineations are so extreme – that the difference between a black person and a white person is as great as the difference between a squishy human and a pile of rocks.

And so, once I set up this idea of “races” in Gloomhaven, I took it one step further into a bad place by assigning personality and mental traits to these “races” in a blanket way, reinforcing the concept of broad racial stereotypes: “All Inox are proud and stubborn.” “All Quatryls are hard-working and helpful.” Yes, certain cultures or societies may see varying traits as virtues and foster them in their populations, but no culture is monolithic, and not all Valraths come from the same culture anyway. Not only does implying that reinforce harmful stereotypes in the real world, it's also just bad world-building.

And I think this gets at the larger point. I could go on and on about all the things I did wrong. We didn't even touch upon how the descriptions of some peoples in Gloomhaven, like the Inox and Quatryls, hew dangerously close to very harmful stereotypes of real-world cultures, because of, again, my own unconscious biases. But the point is that I need to fix them. Not only to stop real-world harm for players who may react negatively to such depictions, but also to just make the world-building stronger and more carefully thought-out for all players to enjoy.

Back when I was creating Gloomhaven, I was just blundering along, doing all the narrative myself. With Frosthaven, I have so many more resources and people willing to collaborate with me to improve the game in every conceivable way, so it was an obvious step to improve in this way as well. And like many other aspects of board game development, the process has turned out to be so much easier once I brought in a professional, I realized I really should have been doing this from the beginning.

And it's important to note that this isn't a compromise of anything. We don't have to trade the quality of the story to make it less harmful. We can improve all things at the same time, so that this whole experience is just a win-win. There's nothing to even change mechanically – it's all narrative. And we can do it in parallel to all the other efforts we are also working on to finish up the game, so that improving the narrative won't even delay production. All upside, no downside.

One other thing you may be asking is whether these changes to the story are going to cause Frosthaven to lose its edge. Whether it is going to soften the story in an attempt to please everyone, and that is not the case. You are still a group of hardened mercenaries trying to survive in a hostile environment. Hard choices will still have to be made, but I think “choice” is a key word here.

I've received plenty of negative feedback over the years about the ending of scenario 3 in Gloomhaven (rightfully so), and the problem there wasn't necessarily that players were inflicting trauma on children (though that too wasn't great either), but the main issue was that there wasn't a real choice. The setup for the scenario did not do a good enough job of telegraphing what was to come so that players could opt out and go down the other path if they wanted.

If you look at the history of FrosthavenI wrote during the Kickstarter, you may notice the religiously fueled colonialism vibes running rampant through it. This itself isn't an issue. This is how the main human nation behaves in this fantasy reality. But I've since become uncomfortable with how the story written in that update forces the player to opt in and become complicit in this behavior without choice. Some people may not be comfortable with that.

So we've shifted the story around so that Frosthaven is a separate entity that doesn't want to, by default, take over by force a territory inhabited by other peoples. The story is still just as rich or richer than before, and certain individuals will still come in, recruiting you to advance the colonialist agendas of the capital, but now the player has agency in how the story plays out, which is always a good thing.

And since I'm kind of laying it all out on the table here, publicly recognizing that Gloomhaven did a lot of things wrong, I would also just like to take a moment to apologize to anyone who was harmed by my ignorance in crafting that story, and I want to thank all the people who have helped me realize my mistakes in the intervening years. We all make mistakes, and the important thing is to learn from them and do our best to reverse any harm that those mistakes cause. There's more work to do in that regard, but I think making sure Frosthaven doesn't repeat those mistakes, and talking about the process openly are good first steps.

And finally, I recognize there may be some small percentage of you that will be upset by these developments. You are more than welcome to your own opinions, but voicing those opinions in the comments in a combative, disruptive, or derogatory way is not okay. I would encourage you to simply reach out to [email protected] and request a full refund if you feel strongly enough about it. We've already done that for a couple people who didn't think black lives matter, and we'd be happy to do it again for people who don't think board games should be a safe space for everyone.

If you do feel the need to comment, I ask you with all sincerity to be respectful. It is a simple thing, but it is super-important to us, and we will use all the tools we have to make sure this space does remain safe and respectful.

So have a great weekend, and I will catch you in two weeks with more cool stuff to share
 
  • 2Like
Reactions: 1 users

Guurn

<Bronze Donator>
5,960
30,648
"We've already done that for a couple people who didn't think black lives matter"

Either the wording of this is terrible or his indoctrination is complete.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users

Hateyou

Not Great, Not Terrible
<Bronze Donator>
16,283
42,305
"We've already done that for a couple people who didn't think black lives matter"

Either the wording of this is terrible or his indoctrination is complete.
The indoctrination looks complete to me. It’s fucking nonsense that bias in a fantasy word is unacceptable and harmful in the real world. Is it harmful in the real world that upon seeing a Jawa in Star Wars someone might think they’ll steal their shit? It’s ridiculous. Many fantasy stories are completely built upon biases among one race or another, wars based on bias, etc. Him saying that using the word race itself when separating groups in a fantasy world is in itself racist because they’re different species. And even the word species is problematic! Just fuck off Wokehaven.
 
  • 4Like
Reactions: 3 users

bolok

Trakanon Raider
1,008
527
Yeah that shit is depressing. I really did love gloomhaven, i didn't get in on the frosthaven kickstarter at anything other than the $1 level since my current trajectory to finish gloomhaven is a couple years out at best, and i have way too much money tied up in Kingdom Death as is.

Oh well, I guess the target version of Gloom is the last thing i get from them. Maybe i'll pick it up second hand some day, but meh.
 

Kuro

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
8,340
21,189
That Consultant is going to be the most costly hire of his career
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Truth!
Reactions: 2 users

Omayga

Lord Nagafen Raider
186
123
Canceled my FH pledge. Also had just purchased Jaws of the Lion as a quick intermission while waiting for FH, luckily it was still in the plastic so I sent that shit back too

loved Gloomhaven but I cant give money to that kind of bullshit thinking
 
  • 6Like
Reactions: 5 users

Cutlery

Kill All the White People
<Gold Donor>
6,394
17,773
Man I'm so torn on FH. I want so bad to shove it right down his fucking throat, but I've got a gaming group looking forward to it for a year now and they don't give a shit about woke or not. They are not as ideologically driven.

I will tell you this...it's the last thing I'll ever buy from him. I overlooked his BLM bullshit, but this is a step too far
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,106
30,194
We dropped it. We are only halfway through the first game and have tons of other great games (without wokeism in them) to play, anyhow. If it winds up somehow not being the Last of Us 2 of board games, we will scoop it up later. But for now, we are not contributing to this horse shit anymore.

On topic, we have been pretty majorly into Root since it came out and Hans Teutonica is actually pretty slick as a game, too.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions: 2 users