Camelot Unchained MMO

pyksel_sl said:

Most of the hype for WAR came from Jeff Hickman and Paul Barnett.

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Yeah.. and you know Paul Barnett can take a long walk off a short pier as well. Seems like I remember him pretty much being a public nuisance as well.

Utnayan_sl said:

Well, some of it is educated opinion based on relic designers who ruined other games.

It would be different if some of these people actually learned from their mistakes rather than keep making them over and over again.



After it went free to play.

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I don't disagree that there was hype after it went F2P but to assume it didn't happen until it went F2P is absurd. Did you not participate in the beta or the events leading up the release and several months after? Barnett and Hickman were a freight train of hype and publicity snagging anyone that would listen for a few minutes and this was well before the game landed on the shelves.

Muligan_sl said:

Yeah.. and you know Paul Barnett can take a long walk off a short pier as well. Seems like I remember him pretty much being a public nuisance as well.

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Agreed. He was fun to listen to prior to WAR being released and falling into the shitter but after that he was painful to listen to. I certainly have very low expectations for CSE's Camelot Unchained but it would be nice to get an MMO out there that's got some damn staying power.

"Uh, guys! It's a RVR game, with, you know, the three same fucking factions as DAOC, but NONONONO, it's not DAOC2".

Uuuuuh sure.

Only thing that has me even a little hopeful is saying it's designed for a niche market. But damn, I'm just so sick of faction based PvP.

Malkav_sl said:

"Uh, guys! It's a RVR game, with, you know, the three same fucking factions as DAOC, but NONONONO, it's not DAOC2".

Uuuuuh sure.

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Daoc2 is ok with me.

I'd be ok with DAOC2 but he is stating it's not but who knows at this point.

Grim1_sl said:

Daoc2 is ok with me.

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Me too, it's just that Jacob just seems dumb saying exactly that.

I think he is way off of the mark, let me explain.

MMORPGs were among the first games to push forward, and combine, all sorts of new and interesting technologies; digital distribution, social networking, persistence, and so on. These core technologies came to be associated with the EQ style games in much the same way that in the early 90s textured polygon graphics were associated with FPS games. It was into this world that DAoC was born, so it took that formula and adjusted it to match an aesthetic where players fighting players was the focus.

That world is gone. Persistence, social networking, and rpg-systems are in every genre of game, and several of those genres are MUCH better suited for a PvP focused online game. Shooters, MoBAs, and strategy games all take the place of the niche he wants to fill with his new PvP-Focused MMO. There is no room, or any real desire, for what it seems he wants to make. World of Tanks might be one of the best examples of the new breed of PvP MMOs. It takes a core game that is arena-based, and layers on top of that a browser-driven meta game that gives some real heft to the clan matches, leading to proper emotional investment.

The other, and proper, direction to go is something Eve-like. Now, I can't stand playing Eve because it is so mind-numblingly tedious, but I recognize what it does. It builds a framework of desirable resources through PvE, or PvAsteroid, for which control is required and players are motivated to fight over. Eve PvP is exciting and tense because of theconsequencesderived from the environment, which again emotionally invest the players.

I just don't see his old school middle ground DAoC-like game having a real shot.

Grim1_sl said:

Daoc2 is ok with me.

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Same. Although with the wealth of fantasy material, why the fuck does Camelot need to be reused?

Denaut_sl said:

I just don't see his old school middle ground DAoC-like game having a real shot.

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I disagree completely, and my reasoning is he is creating a niche game targeted at a specific audience, not aiming for a bazillion subs. If his game requires 50k subs for a year to be successful and 100k box sales, then he'll probably make that target and then some by releasing a polished, good game focused on RVR.

Here's hoping he has a lot of reusable code from past games sitting around.

Despite its flaws, I know a lot of people who still play DAOC today, and this is after trying just about everything else out there. Like others have said, I'd be more than fine with a DAOC 2, and if this is anything close I'll be playing. I blame EA a lot more for the failure of WAR than Mark. From his team description:

Mark Jacobs co-founded Mythic Entertainment and made some kick-ass games like Dark Age of Camelot. Then he traded the company and his soul for a bunch of shiny beads. After winning back the soul in a Dubai poker game, he's ready to do it all again. And this time, he's got beads and he's not afraid to use them.

I'm interested to see how this turns out, would be nice for the market to swing back to Indie/niche mmos instead of blockbuster failures. Plus, if it turns out being decent pvptards wont be able to bitch and scream at every game not catering to them and we can finally get a mmo without a horriblely forced pvp faction system.

Mark Jacobs, the guy who said long before DAoC beta started that class balancing was pretty much done as they already had balanced the classes when designing the game. He is and will always be a complete and utter retard.

Hey man, don't knock DIKU muds. They teach some very good lessons, like how to make a fun game with severe tech limitations. I mean when you are playing a game that is text based on a 9600 baud modem on a server that can't hold more than 200 congruent connections, you need to design the shit out of it to be fun.

Unfortunately a lot (ok maybe just some) of the developers out there haven't evolved since then.

Utnayan_sl said:

Haha yes.

Balance was an AE Mez which would mez an entire lot of 100 Albions at our Mid-Mile Emain Supply fort stun locking them for over 2 minutes while we would have 4 of us just going around one by one to the tears of the pubbies.

That, and obviously telling everyone how DAOC would be complete at launch, then launched to all post 35 itemization being non existant while artificially blocking keep doors to block progression to the relic game until that was finished 3 months later.

I don't know why these people just don't go do something else. This would include anyone who designed games in the mid 90's through about 2002 or had anything with the statement of "Diku Mud" within their resume.

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Fuck, I miss my Alb Sorc.

I never played DAOC or WAR and I don't know who Marc Jacobs is (I thought he was a fashion designer lolz). That being said, I like the fact that he is at least trying something new. This board notoriously pans every WOW-rehash, and when someone comes along and says they want to go in a different direction, the trendy response seems to be "we don't need that."

Lots of people have failed many times, particularly in art mediums, to produce high quality work. Then one day, eureka! They release something genius. The same can be said in reverse - many artists have a huge hit early in their career, then go on to produce a load of trash for years to come. Bottom line, if this turns out to be a great game, Utnayan and all the other cock gobblers around here (who probably couldn't program a tic-tac-toe game) will finally have to eat crow.

I have faith that we will see another great MMORPG experience in our life time, and odds are its going to be sooner rather than later. Is it going to be this particular game? Most likely not, but until we see a beta I'm withholding all judgement. At least this game is likely to be released.

K13R_sl said:

War isnt f2p the have umlimited trial in tier one which was maybe the best part of the game for some I played with a ststic 6 and it was some of the best pvp I had in years. I would even say since.

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seriously.. how do we recreate this? That was by far the most fun I had PvPing too. I'm not even sure what made it great lol? Maybe some of you technical guys could break it down? Was it the lack of abilities/CC?