Camelot Unchained MMO

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
See where I'm getting at?
Yes. Leveling doesn't stop when you reach max level because you are basically leveling your gear at the point. What I really enjoy about GW2 is I don't have to wait 6 months to compete. I'm not saying it's great for everyone, but it works just fine for me.
 

Young_sl

shitlord
45
0
New blog up on theCamelotUnchainedpage, pasted in the spoiler.

Foundational Principle #2 - RvR isn't the end game, it's the only game!

CU is a TriRealmT, RvR-focused game. It is not an RvR-centric game like Dark Age ofCamelotand it is certainly not a "just bolt on the RvR; that will work!" game like so many others. It is as pure an RvR game that I have ever worked on, plain and simple. Everything in this game is geared to the TriRealm concept, whether it is the crafting system, housing, skill progression, etc. You will explore, fight, capture, level, etc. all within a competitive RvR world that was crafted with this FP in mind.

"Hey Mr. Wizard! How about an example or two?" Sure, easily done. Let's look at crafters for example. Our crafters will never have to worry about whether the gear that they make, the arrows that they fletch nor the ring that they forged in the fires of Mount Doom., whoops, wrong game, sorry, being eclipsed by something that is dropped by a hummingbird, even if it is the "WORLD'S LARGEST HUMMINGBIRD THAT SHOOTS LASER BEAMS FROM ITS EYES." The best way to accomplish this is to ensure that there are no drops of powerful items from NPCs. Secondly, to make sure that the first point is followed, let's just say that there are no NPC drops at all and damn few NPCs. That's right, as an RvR-focused game hummingbirds won't be dropping rare and unique items; well, unless you consider bird poop rare and unique. You will get rewards for killing other players, other players' helpers and some stuff in the world but it won't be gear and we will also not offer tokens. Tokens are for subways and some pinball and arcade games, not for this game. I was and remain a fan of that type of system for a different game(s) but not for this game. I want my crafters to know that there is no chance that the stuff they are making can be eclipsed by anything dropped or buyable through the non-player shops with but one exception. That exception is if there are not enough crafters, we reserve the right to make sure that things like population imbalance do not end up in a cascading and insurmountable disaster for a realm.

"Okay, not bad. How about stuff like leveling combat-type skills?" Well, that's even easier. Our progression systems will be based solely on the activities that you are participating in directly ("Die Die. Kill you all. Make you suffer!") or ("Heal Heal. Heal you all. Make you whole!") or simply by otherwise helping out in RvR, even if you aren't very good at it. The reward/leveling systems are a lot more complicated than that and I'll talk about them in a separate post entitled "Level me up Snotty" coming soon to this blog and man oh man, will that post stir up some interesting reactions. Know that I'm a fan of "You are what you do" gameplay as well as a class-based system for this kind of game so.

"One last question, an oldie but a goody. How are you going to break up the zergs that make RvR so much fun!" This is a more complicated one and frankly is the perfect example how I've told the team we have to approach RvR holistically (don't even say it, I know what you are thinking) and not look for a silver bullet (or even arrow) to deal with that problem. Since RvR isn't our endgame, the vast majority of the world's map (sorry, I still believe in protecting freshly minted characters, so feel free to mock this choice) is going to be open, unlocked and available for your raiding, looting and RvRing pleasure. But that's not enough, we will also have very, very limited fast travel options. Moreover, while having lots of extended CC abilities is a tad bit controversial, we will certainly have some CC (as well as resists and ways to clear the CC) so that smaller groups can have a better chance at dealing with larger groups. Having a rather large world map, almost no fast travel, and some CC abilities is a good start but we need even more and we'll detail that in later blogs. Oh, and no "Pop goes the Arthurian." When you die, and you will die; don't expect to simply pop back up and get right back in the fight. It is going to be a lot more complicated than that. IMO, that gameplay style embodies some of the problems with many modern MMOs, death without consequence, "easy in" and "easy out" RvR, 6-year old kids' soccer match, etc. RvR combat must be fun, challenging, exciting and losing must hurt a bit or it means nothing.

"Okay, I lied. How about another question? What if we don't want to RvR that day but still want to have fun in the game?" Well, that is where housing, crafting and other systems will come into play. As a RvR-focused game, players will need all sorts of items and the crafters will have to supply them. Whether it is arrows, armor, gold for the mint, etc., there's always going to be somebody who needs something and that's where crafting comes in. And if you don't feel like crafting, well, the housing/buildings system are waiting for you. And if that isn't enough there will be RvR missions that you can undertake that won't involve sacking a keep but could still involve some RvR (in an open world, not instanced, k thx bye) if you get unlucky. And if that is not enough, well, we will have some other things that you can do but we are an RvR-focused game and if you are not feeling it that night and nothing we have interests you, well, it's time to take a break, just like any other game. I cannot promise you that CU will meet all your needs for an MMO. It cannot be all things to all people but it can be a great RvR-focused game with your help, feedback, support and involvement. If on some nights it isn't what you are looking for, well, that's okay, your realm's enemies will be still waiting for you when you get back.

If you looking for a game that captures the spirit, challenge and excitement of RvR, you have come to the right place. Oh, did I forget to mention territorial control, RvR leaderboards, extremely limited "normal" instances (special events, special unlocks, etc.) and most importantly, getting to know and hate your enemies with a passion and being rewarded for doing so? And no Virginia, cross-realm characters on a server is a no-no and of course, we will have multiple servers but there is a Santa Claus N.O.ME., at least in March on Oz.
smile.png


Up next: You should always hold the hands of your children while crossing busy intersections but not here!

http://citystateentertainment.com/20...the-only-game/

smile.png
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,424
37,545
Nahh, Ill take a huge world, long leveling curve, massive social dungeons, tons of "real quests" that span the entire world and levels and offer awesome rewards, think of the EQ epic quests... Shit like that.

I dont want another gear tredmill at end game for +5 int in some shitty one hallway instances which I have to do over and oer again to grind some shitty currency.

Focus on the journey, not the end. This is where games are failing at.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
Oh, they are still selling boxes that's for sure and they are not a failure. But more people are leaving the game than new ones coming in. The actual amount of people logging has been decreasing drastically for some time now. The lower tier servers are ghost towns, even most mid tier servers have a serious lack of population logging in.

Most new players love the leveling process in GW2, it is fun. Not as fun as at launch though, since most leveling zones are empty. But the endgame is where they lose players. The PvE endgame for GW2 is really bad. If they don't like WvW or SPvP then most players leave the game soon after reaching max level, if they even get that far.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/c...ohanson_notes/

"*Guild Wars 2 has sold way past their expectations. They reached their core user base around a month back, and the population has been steadily growing each week.

I agree with the zones and that is why they need to use the overflow tech to combine servers. We see this happen in every game.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
GW2 doesn't need a large playerbase, they need to sell a lot of boxes. They did. They are incredibly successful. Most successful MMO after WOW. People playing these games don't want to slog through tedious weeks of leveling to max out. They want to max out as soon as possible. But they will spend 6 months gearing up though. That's the crux. Make leveling fast as hell, so devote 15% of your content to it, then make a game that is fun to get gear and other shit with the rest of the 85%. Today's games need to be the polar opposite of your thinking. In the end it's really window dressing though.

You want months of leveling then start the gear grind.

I want hours of leveling (under 20, or the length of a single player game), but then spend the bulk of my hours gearing out my character, doing PVP. Leveling is something people view "they have to do". But someone will have no problem hanging out in game and grind a dungeon or two a night. For some reason doing 20 dungeons for the hell of it is fine to get 200 tokens. But doing 20 dungeons to get 10 levels is boring. At least the gear you're getting at this point sticks around for a while.

See where I'm getting at?
Personally, I dont' care how fast the leveling process is. All that matters is the content. If the endgame consists of just doing dailies, instanced dungeons and battlegrounds then I bail the game. So do most players. And that is why GW2 is losing so many players. Their PvE endgame is lame.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
Nahh, Ill take a huge world, long leveling curve, massive social dungeons, tons of "real quests" that span the entire world and levels and offer awesome rewards, think of the EQ epic quests... Shit like that.

I dont want another gear tredmill at end game for +5 int in some shitty one hallway instances which I have to do over and oer again to grind some shitty currency.

Focus on the journey, not the end. This is where games are failing at.
Do you even know what made those dungeons social? Long fucking health regen, mana regen and long ass spawn times and limited space. Do you really think anyone is going to make that kind of game where you sit on your ass for 20 minutes regaining your mana and health waiting for spawns? If that's what you want fine, I wouldn't hold my breath though.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/c...ohanson_notes/

"*Guild Wars 2 has sold way past their expectations. They reached their core user base around a month back, and the population has been steadily growing each week.

I agree with the zones and that is why they need to use the overflow tech to combine servers. We see this happen in every game.
Concurrent logins are down for GW2 and continue to decline. They are selling boxes and they deserve to, but most players only play for a few weeks and then never log in again. GW2 is not a bad game overall. Just their endgame sucks (that may change).
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
Concurrent logins are down for GW2. They are selling boxes and they deserve to but most players only play for a few weeks and then never log in again. GW2 is not a bad game overall. Just their endgame sucks (that may change).
Can you at least link one thing to back this up? Everything I am reading says the opposite.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
Can you at least link one thing to back this up? Everything I am reading says the opposite.
What you are reading is them selling boxes and mistaking that for people still logging in. People not logging in to GW2 isn't as big a deal for them as other mmos because their business model is based on boxes. Their cash shop loses a bit if people aren't playing, but their shop isn't the main source of revenue. And it has pretty slim offerings compared to most cash shops.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,424
37,545
Do you even know what made those dungeons social? Long fucking health regen, mana regen and long ass spawn times and limited space. Do you really think anyone is going to make that kind of game where you sit on your ass for 20 minutes regaining your mana and health waiting for spawns? If that's what you want fine, I wouldn't hold my breath though.
They were social because people had to rely on eachother and they were not instances. No one is asking for 20 min regen times, man. Youre missing the point. RPGs at their core are about the journey not some treadmill at the end. These games are becoming nothing more than a lobby game with instances, now they even teleport you to inside them. Fuck, why even have a persistant world?
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
They were social because people had to rely on eachother and they were not instances. No one is asking for 20 min regen times, man. Youre missing the point. RPGs at their core are about the journey not some treadmill at the end. These games are becoming nothing more than a lobby game with instances, now they even teleport you to inside them. Fuck, why even have a persistant world?
People have to rely on each other in every dungeon in every game. Under that definition WoW has social dungeons.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
What you are reading is them selling boxes and mistaking that for people still logging in. People not logging in to GW2 isn't as big a deal for them as other mmos because their business model is based on boxes. Their cash shop loses a bit if people aren't playing, but their shop isn't the main source of revenue. And it has pretty slim offerings compared to most cash shops.
No they have also stated that concurrent users is also increasing.
 

K13R

Bronze Knight of the Realm
285
9
After reading the blog im convinced he's bat shit crazy not thats a bad thing..I never worked for ea but I heard few second hand stories maybe he just enjoying his freedom to say what ever the fuck he wants to say..
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
No they have also stated that concurrent users is also increasing.
Not true. If it were then they would have added servers. My guild has been on 5 servers in our travels, starting on Jade Quarry. Originally we were trying to get away from the WvW queues, but lately it's to find a server that is still active. I'm back on Jade Quarry, but now we have players on many different servers. All of them, even Jade Quarry, has suffered losses in players. Queues for WvW are rare and only on the top tier servers. Queues use to happen on every server.

But the main reason for the loss of players is FoTM and the gear grind they introduced. A huge portion of their fanbase feels they were lied to by ANET because of the new gear grind. Right after FoTM's launch is when the most players quit. My guild and our allies lost almost half of it's playerbase during that and the reasons were all the same. Nobody wanted to grind dailies and dungeons. And since WvW is kind of lame in it's current form, most of them went to go play PS2 and are still there.


Anyways, way off topic for this thread. I wish Mark Jacobs the best. We really need something different in the mmo space. Even if they copy DAoC that would be something new compared to the current crop of clones.
 

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
<Gold Donor>
18,743
34,944
For some reason doing 20 dungeons for the hell of it is fine to get 200 tokens. But doing 20 dungeons to get 10 levels is boring. At least the gear you're getting at this point sticks around for a while.

See where I'm getting at?
Why can we not have both? I fucking think that people nostalgic about EQ are morons and remembering a lot of things that just weren't true, but this is one of the things Verant/SOE got right, at least initially. You were able to "grind" for experience, while still having a shot at large sized upgrades while dungeon running. Dungeons weren't just a road-block on the way to raids, like today's MMOs.

That's the thing I hate most about recent MMOs. It's either a level grind(nowadays, that's mostly the Korean/Japanese MMOs)or a gear/faction/token grind. There is no "both" option. You can't get one while also doing the other.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Nahh, Ill take a huge world, long leveling curve, massive social dungeons, tons of "real quests" that span the entire world and levels and offer awesome rewards, think of the EQ epic quests... Shit like that.

I dont want another gear tredmill at end game for +5 int in some shitty one hallway instances which I have to do over and oer again to grind some shitty currency.

Focus on the journey, not the end. This is where games are failing at.
To each their own. I prefer having a character with the full array of abilities for the majority of a game's lifetime. The rest of your statement with social dungeons and quests and rewards fits either style of game.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
They were social because people had to rely on eachother and they were not instances. No one is asking for 20 min regen times, man. Youre missing the point. RPGs at their core are about the journey not some treadmill at the end. These games are becoming nothing more than a lobby game with instances, now they even teleport you to inside them. Fuck, why even have a persistant world?
Meh. The leveling process is a treadmill in it's own rite. Most of these game at the "end game" relies on other people to do things. I've been doing a few dungeons in GW2 and I've made some friends that I'll toss on my friends list to do dungeons with again. Dungeons in GW2 are pretty shitty, but the trash count and time between bosses is pretty good. The dungeon design (architecture) is really great too. (Class mechanics and roles are meh but they have room to improve) Essentially I get the same social aspect with a few other people.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Not true. If it were then they would have added servers. My guild has been on 5 servers in our travels, starting on Jade Quarry. Originally we were trying to get away from the WvW queues, but lately it's to find a server that is still active. I'm back on Jade Quarry, but now we have players on many different servers. All of them, even Jade Quarry, has suffered losses in players. Queues for WvW are rare and only on the top tier servers. Queues use to happen on every server.

But the main reason for the loss of players is FoTM and the gear grind they introduced. A huge portion of their fanbase feels they were lied to by ANET because of the new gear grind. Right after FoTM's launch is when the most players quit. My guild and our allies lost almost half of it's playerbase during that and the reasons were all the same. Nobody wanted to grind dailies and dungeons. And since WvW is kind of lame in it's current form, most of them went to go play PS2 and are still there.


Anyways, way off topic for this thread. I wish Mark Jacobs the best. We really need something different in the mmo space. Even if they copy DAoC that would be something new compared to the current crop of clones.
Pretty much not true. There are 10-30m queues on JQ every single night from 6pm through 11pm. Hell getting on to JQ before server transfers went paid was a hassle.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Why can we not have both? I fucking think that people nostalgic about EQ are morons and remembering a lot of things that just weren't true, but this is one of the things Verant/SOE got right, at least initially. You were able to "grind" for experience, while still having a shot at large sized upgrades while dungeon running. Dungeons weren't just a road-block on the way to raids, like today's MMOs.

That's the thing I hate most about recent MMOs. It's either a level grind(nowadays, that's mostly the Korean/Japanese MMOs)or a gear/faction/token grind. There is no "both" option. You can't get one while also doing the other.
Well sure you can have both, but my point is, using the same content one way is boring and the other it's fine. Grinding to get tokens or drops in a dungeon is fine for most people. Grinding a dungeon for 10 levels just to get to other dungeons is less fun, or a means to an end.

Key is: for most people.

Edit: fuck me like 30 posts in a row.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
Pretty much not true. There are 10-30m queues on JQ every single night from 6pm through 11pm.
That's only on JQ and that happened after Prx moved there. There were some queues before that but the PRX move brought a lot of bandwagoners. Most of the rest of the servers have no queues. The lower tier servers are getting depopulated and have been for a while. The players that don't leave the game go to the top tier servers.

And remember, Queues on JQ use to be 5 hours or more.

That's why our guild moved so much. We kept trying to find a mid tier server that had a medium pop but they all kept losing too many players. Some of us gave up and moved back to JQ.

GW2 is losing concurrent players. You don't want to believe it but it is true.