Camelot Unchained MMO

Young_sl

shitlord
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0
Yea, reward for PvP is nothing new. Like has already been said, in the UO days you would go out and PK people for the fun of it, but also for their gear. Not one PK on this board can tell me that they left every single victim's loot on their corpse. The odd time you would, if it was a newb with just some bone armor. But a vanq weap? Or some regs/pots? Give me a break!

Go to one of the next best PvP games, DAoC, realm ranks. Keep going down the list. Long term gain creates an investment in the character which creates a reason for people to want to keep playing that character. Especially since MJ is talking about putting penalties for death in, there has to be a reward to balance that out. If I want instant action no penalty/no reward I will go play a FPS.

And it appears from his most recent post we are right, realm ranks maybe not, but some type of point system where you are rewarded for helping the realm, thus you are inspired to do so! Genius system!

http://citystateentertainment.com/20...bilities-what/
 

Young_sl

shitlord
45
0
Next FP is up, talking about race and classes. Seems they plan to go the same route as DAoC, different races/classes for all three realms. He does warn that there will be significantly less class/race combos at release compared to DAoC as their studio/budget will not be as big. This is fair enough, less classes means less class balance and less chance you pick one that ends up being useless in the primary PvP groups.

I want our backers to know that we will absolutely emphasis quality over quantity this and be fully aware that we will not launch with half-finished races/classes/etc.
As a former TL who spent months begging Mythic to just give us a little more time, I was very happy to see this post.

http://citystateentertainment.com/20...cissors-natch/
 

AlekseiFL_sl

shitlord
489
1
That Sept 2015 release is gross.. I understand it takes a long time to make games, but that is going to seem even longer me thinks.

New FP is up:

http://citystateentertainment.com/20...rs-still-suck/

I don't like the upcoming one..



Really? Comon.. we need some kind of long term gain to keep us motivated.. don't make it so you can revamp the game every 6 months like WOW does. Not interested in that.
The Sept 2015 date,allows them to have alot more Kickstarters for the Ponzi scheme, I mean Project.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
Next FP is up, talking about race and classes. Seems they plan to go the same route as DAoC, different races/classes for all three realms. He does warn that there will be significantly less class/race combos at release compared to DAoC as their studio/budget will not be as big. This is fair enough, less classes means less class balance and less chance you pick one that ends up being useless in the primary PvP groups.



As a former TL who spent months begging Mythic to just give us a little more time, I was very happy to see this post.

http://citystateentertainment.com/20...cissors-natch/
Different classes/races with unique abilities I think works great in a 3 faction system. Balance is always impossible but with 3 factions it doesn't become game breaking. In a two faction system like WAR though, it was a huge mistake.
 
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daoc:

i enjoyed mordred's ffa much more than rvr (after toa was smoothed out). ffa became more than rp++: contested toa spawns, guild wars, masterlevel progression was often contested/hindered; the common enemy became the guild that would often hold all of the relics (giving ~+30% dmg). achieving something meant something -- especially when you were an underdog.

class variety, uniqueness and perhaps importantly, imbalance, lead to a rewarding experience.
picking an OP class implicitly made you an asshole. you knew it when you picked it and you felt the transgression when you played (particularly solo). killing that opclass as an underpoweredclass was another thing.

normal-rvr servers largely takes away that experience. realm pride is meaningless and an affectation compared to ffa. you picked that realm either because you liked that class, the realm had an initial +dmg bonus due to owning the relic, or your friends were on it. you're kills were ppl to whom you could talk to, not some single entity like in normalrvr(the other realm). that in itself leads to a more social dynamic.

give the game something more than just killing for realm points (building buildings blahblah) and i'm good. also have it so that more time played is not wholly linearly scaled to passive dmg++.

--

camelotunchained:

mark jacobs posts are fanboyish and doesn't delve into specifics -- maybe that'll change once the kickstarter goes live. once it does though, i hope that that there'll be actually something to show other than his hopes and experiences. (a rough m.u.d., some design docs..)
sounds like he unsure of alot of things (ex the type of combat (action vs tabbed etc)) and given that what you design to what you code may not work.. i'd hope he'd be already underway with it. thus, kickstarters for software is not an investment but a gamble/charity/support system backed by his name. that said, i hope it pans out.
 
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also their website... yikes..
the way it looks doesn't look as though it is taking itself seriously -- especially when they are asking for money.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
also their website... yikes..
the way it looks doesn't look as though it is taking itself seriously -- especially when they are asking for money.
This... what is their problem? I'm all for having fun and displaying creativity but this is ridiculous. I under they want attention and they in turn need to differentiate themselves from others. I would like something a little more relevant to their game. Right now i'm led to believe i'm going to play Dark Ages of Free Realms.

Outside of that... I want to see/hear Mark Jacobs himself talk about what he learned from WAR more so than anything. His public relations was miserable and he came off as an unintelligent, stubborn old man most of the times. I would love to see this game become a competitor but it appears to me, they have too much time on their hands. (Something they shouldn't have if they are serious about this game)
 

Young_sl

shitlord
45
0
Well I suggest you do some google searching as I will not do it for you, but MJ has talked extensively in interviews about what he has learned from mistakes made with both DAoC and WAR.

One of the things he likes the most about Kickstarter is that he has no share holders to please besides the players themselves as the backers.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
Well I suggest you do some google searching as I will not do it for you, but MJ has talked extensively in interviews about what he has learned from mistakes made with both DAoC and WAR.

One of the things he likes the most about Kickstarter is that he has no share holders to please besides the players themselves as the backers.
I've looked at everything recently but nothing that didn't appear to be a token PR response in hopes of gaining trust and especially money. I haven't seen anything specific and if you played WAR and was involved in that community, you'll know what I mean. It isn't so much his mistakes but i'm more curious of his demeanor and maybe even his maturity. My point was in response to the post I quoted above... The site and everything they are doing to this point, doesn't make me feel too warm and fuzzy about the idea but here's hoping the game speaks louder than what I remember of MJ.
 

Pyksel

Rasterizing . . .
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I've looked at everything recently but nothing that didn't appear to be a token PR response in hopes of gaining trust and especially money. I haven't seen anything specific and if you played WAR and was involved in that community, you'll know what I mean. It isn't so much his mistakes but i'm more curious of his demeanor and maybe even his maturity. My point was in response to the post I quoted above... The site and everything they are doing to this point, doesn't make me feel too warm and fuzzy about the idea but here's hoping the game speaks louder than what I remember of MJ.
I may be naive but I'm getting the exact opposite reaction to his Foundation Principle blog as it's pretty clear what the problems were and what he's learned. He may not come right out in every case, but he does acknowledge some of his shortcomings from his more recent endeavors. I will attest that he does fall back to blaming publishing as a weakness but I think that boils down to him seeing dollar signs at the time and needing to please the share holders vs. the players as Young pointed out above.

Yes, he still has a long way to go to convince me he's learned his lesson and can put out a decent game again, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt based upon what I've read thus far.

In response to previous posts, I couldn't give a shit if their website was the most god awful thing on the planet as long as the game delivers. What MJ is putting out there is a good start as it all begins with the foundation of the game and doesn't jump right into the minutia. He does give some specifics if you've been reading them but I wouldn't expect much from them at this point until the Kickstarter goes live. The way I see it, him putting his philosophy and beliefs out there is a good way to show us if his head is screwed on straight before he starts doctoring it up with a bunch of bolt on features in a game that's been built upon hype and not good design.
 
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[...] I couldn't give a shit if their website was the most god awful thing on the planet as long as the game delivers. [...]
game being delivered is contingent on the kickstarter -- a shit looking website doesn't help that businesswise.
not having a decent website in the first place is a huge oversight. vanity matters.

if this didn't have mj's name behind it then i think it'd be mocked more readily. also i think you naive -- although, i too was naive having followed david allen's horizons. that man could run a cult. again, i want it to succeed but they need their shit in order and put out something more tangible. ..that it wasn't already the case makes me cringe
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
game being delivered is contingent on the kickstarter -- a shit looking website doesn't help that businesswise.
not having a decent website in the first place is a huge oversight. vanity matters.

if this didn't have mj's name behind it then i think it'd be mocked more readily. also i think you naive -- although, i too was naive having followed david allen's horizons. that man could run a cult. again, i want it to succeed but they need their shit in order and put out something more tangible. ..that it wasn't already the case makes me cringe
This is more or less my point. If their funding is based on a kickstarter and contingent upon the business impression that it leave on potential investors, I would think you would really have to showcase the only product you have at this time, which is your web presence (website, blogs, press releases, etc.), then why such unprofessional display? That is subjective sure but, if I am an investor, i'm going put some merit into who it is... ok MJ, he has some decent experience, seen the good and bad, and probably an impressive resume. However, my next question is to say, ok let's see what you have... Then I get pointed to this website that looks like a comic book release. From a competitive standpoint, if I put their site and ideas against what is out there, it doesn't make since. I feel more like i'm getting taken for a ride more than something worth my time. Overall, its hard to take this serious. He may be a good BS'er but I want to see concept art with a web presence that indicates their artistic direction so I know where its going. I think that Rift really did this better than anyone as of late. Think back to what Rift through out there in the beginning, it really looked cool. It's still so early to tell though, i'm just being picky due to the fact I expected more from a person in his position and with his experience.
 

Tmac

Adventurer
<Gold Donor>
9,416
16,004
also their website... yikes..
Wow. Yeah. Reading the blog didn't give off this impression initially...then I went to their home page. Holy Free-Realms for reals batman!

I'm, like, horrified.

DAoC is, to date, one of my all-time favorite games. So, I might consider giving to the charity/donation/money-pit depending on what sort of content they reveal to wet my whistle.
 

Pyksel

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Next FP is up.Foundational Principle #8 ? This should be a chaotic game with epic surprises at every turn

Foundational Principle #8 ? This should be a chaotic game with epic surprises at every turn
Over the course of my long career, I have spent a lot of time (some have said far too much time), hanging/lurking around forums, talking to players, gathering feedback, etc., but I have always considered it an important part of my job description. The advantages of this approach have always been readily apparent to me especially when I see a post that really catches my eye. A number of weeks ago a player on one of the forums that I have been spending quite some time on wrote a post that has become this Foundational Principle. When I read it, I saw that it both encapsulated some of the principles I pushed for in WAR (some of which were approved by the senior leadership team, others were met with dark stares and raised cutlery) and said it as well (probably better actually) than I could say myself. I want this game to be something you play every day not for the leveling grind, not for the gear grind but simply because playing the game is both fun and challenging. IMO, adding some elements of chaos/randomness/whim to multiple game systems and gameplay, will be a net gain for CU. This game will not be a linear, theme-park style world where you pretty much know what the outcome of most of the fights will be before the battle begins and that someone?s ?Guide to riches and success in CU? will be all-knowing and 100% accurate, but rather, a game that will evolve and change over time.

Now, what does that mean for you as the player? Injecting randomness into games very often meets an ill-fated reception from a vocal portion of the player base. While many players do want to embrace a bit randomness here and there (usually when it benefits them), when the die roll goes against them, well, a lot of scream of outrage can ensue such as the ever-popular ?Your randomizer is broken!? One could easily paraphrase Benjamin Franklin?s line in the film 1776 (sadly, it wasn?t a real quote) to say that ?Randomness is always good when it works to our advantage, it?s only when it works against us should it be made illegal.? Over the years, my feelings about randomness in games have careened wildly along the track. As one might imagine, I currently believe that as we have made MMORPGs more and more handholding and predictable, we have lost much of both the joys and sorrows of having something really random happen to players whether it is during the course of a pitched battle or simply when just walking down a road.

Having said that, I also understand the concern of players who really don?t want too much randomness in their game because that can lead to far too many truly unexpected losses and frustration with the game?s mechanics, including the much maligned random number generator. What I propose is that this game?s combat systems have enough randomness built into them that players will not know that every time they swing their sword, they will always hit for X damage. I don?t want the player to know that every time they go into a 1:1 battle with someone of equal knowledge/skill but with a slight lower character that the outcome is easily and thoroughly predetermined. However, the system?s damage combat mechanics will be laid out so that the majority of damage will be set but where only a portion of it is random but with a strong critical hit/miss system component as well. We should have a bit more fun with very rare rolls on both sides of the success spectrum. I want to add some special critical hits and critical failures to the game, as I believe that they will add a lot of spice as well as some much needed humor and occasional pathos to the game. Critical hits & failures will be rare but every so often, something should happen of such monumental glory that the players end up discussing these as ?water cooler conversations? the next day. Yes, it will not be fun to be on the receiving end of course but on the other hand, if you are on the other side or simply enjoy a good chuckle, your seeing that powerful Tuatha De Dannan mage cast a mighty spell and being turned into a horned rabbit might make your day. Again, I don?t want to turn this game into an evening?s worth of blooper reel entertainment but a little randomness could add some truly awesome moments into the game or as my son would say making it ?fresh.?

Besides combat, we will look at adding a lot of randomness to the environment in terms of how not only it evolves over time naturally but also how the effects of magic that the players inject into the environment can also affect it over time as well. The landscape should change not just because of seasons (which would, IMO, be a good addition to this game) but also because the players are throwing around the equivalent of small, tactical nuclear devices like guests used to throw rice at wedding receptions. We will try to incorporate the consequences of summoning and tossing around so much power into the game in order to throw, every so often, what amounts to a curveball (or would that be a curvefireball?) at the players. This could manifest in all manner of ways including creating temporary ?dead spaces? where magic might not work or maybe areas where magic works just a wee bit too well. It could also mean that the geography of an area could suddenly change or even that certain beings might manifest themselves within the world quite unexpectedly and with rather interesting results. These are just a quick sampling of the many game devices that we can use to help make our players? experiences within the game not only a bit more unpredictable but also, IMO, a lot more fun, exciting and at times, challenging.

What it boils down to is this, do we want to have a game where randomness and chaos within the game?s systems play a small or nonexistent role or do we want some more excitement both from our game but more importantly, for our experience in that game. Applying too much randomness and chaos into this game would indeed be a mistake, as would building out the systems in a totally sterile and predictable manner. However, I for one look forward to playing in a game where a lot of unique, different and truly odd and funny events can occur anytime and anywhere. Who knows, maybe it might even be fun to be turned into a cute little bunny rabbit as long as I get to bite the head off of an Arthurian while the sound of a can opener plays in the background.

Mark

Next up: Foundational Principle #9 ? Forced socialization was good, then bad. Is it time for a comeback?
 

Spawn_sl

shitlord
58
0
I agree that DAoC to this day was still my favorite PvP game. I left when the massive failure of ToA launched. PvP centric game -> PvE expansion... great idea! /sigh