Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

Hateyou

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yea, the gaming media is now using "burn the ai art! as an excuse to go after everyone they don't like. even though literally every studio is going to be using AI in their process because photoshop now tries to encourage you to use AI every chance it can.
Yeah avoiding AI is going to be difficult very soon. It’s getting embedded into everything. My job now has a generic annual goal of “Use AI as much as possible” and it’s been recently embedded into every Office software we use. Our VP gave us the generic initiative of “Find something we can use AI for”, it’s going to be embedded into corporate culture so deeply that’s it’s just going to be part of your daily software and apps that everyone uses. i think eventually enough indie programmers will use the art AI enough that a lot of people will stop giving a shit that artist isn’t as viable a job as it used to be. It’ll just be that much harder to find work.
 

elidib

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What do people think SpeedTree is? it's been in every game that has trees for a decade now. Literally every one of them. Do these tards think the trees in SpeedTree are all handcrafted by some artist somewhere?
 
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Kirun

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What do people think SpeedTree is? it's been in every game that has trees for a decade now. Literally every one of them. Do these tards think the trees in SpeedTree are all handcrafted by some artist somewhere?
The whole "anti-AI" outrage is exactly what it looks like: performative nonsense. It's a brand-new faux crusade liberal circles cooked up to rile up the base, cosplay concern for the "working man," and score moral points. While the very same people turn around and greenlight funding for companies like Palantir without blinking.

It's typical political bullshit - rage on the surface, business as usual underneath.
 
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...

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The whole "anti-AI" outrage is exactly what it looks like: performative nonsense. It's a brand-new faux crusade liberal circles cooked up to rile up the base, cosplay concern for the "working man," and score moral points. While the very same people turn around and greenlight funding for companies like Palantir without blinking.

It's typical political bullshit - rage on the surface, business as usual underneath.
Yep. Calling out big titty characters and racism is no longer working. They have enlisted the noisy online people. Most of whom know an artist who makes their thumbnails and funny fan art. They are low on gas and doing desperate things to "hello my fellow kids" while also demanding studios be unpersoned for political activist reasons
 
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Caliane

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The whole "anti-AI" outrage is exactly what it looks like: performative nonsense. It's a brand-new faux crusade liberal circles cooked up to rile up the base, cosplay concern for the "working man," and score moral points. While the very same people turn around and greenlight funding for companies like Palantir without blinking.

It's typical political bullshit - rage on the surface, business as usual underneath.
yeah. there is plenty of valid issues with A.i. use in art, etc. but, the people making the most stink and noise, have no idea wtf they are talking about.

one argument I make is pointing out the collapse of the ladder. Saw it in comic book industry.
Inking. Inking used to be its own art form, and had its own job. But, late 2000's photoshop could alter levels and darken pencils, cleaning up the pencils without proper inking. companies of course decided do save 10--200$/page and stop hiring inkers.
now, everyone at the time said, "no big deal, the great inkers will still get work. if you are bad, too bad." And sure that was true.. for about 2 years.
then, the great inkers also started getting replaced. or retired. And, there was no longer anyone to replace them. As all the beginner, or medium level inkers lost their jobs, left the industry, or just in general no longer had the avenue to practice and get better on the job.
Same can be said with hiring foreign pencillers on the cheap. Its nearly impossible to FIND good American pencillers these days, because the jobs dried up, now there are none left. no one training to be the next great comic book artist.

This actually leads into another interesting aspect. The specific label of A.i.. Digital inking wasn't called A.i. Photoshop filters in general. Clouds, blurs, etc. fractals, smoke.
Shaders, lighting, etc. All this computer rendering, of lighting, water, and smoke and shit. no one calls that A.i. Emergent gameplay, etc. npc behaviours, which even gets called a.i. is good.. yet..


Argument 2. A.I. art is not actually original. its just stealing from existing art and blending it.
This is true. but amusingly, what do they think actual artists are doing? both abstractly, and more directly. in an abstract sense, the human brain, when creating art is pulling from everything they've ever seen or thought to create their art. it is expressly referential. you don't exist in a vacuum. when you draw a tree, you bring forth your thoughts, and feelings on trees that you have experienced. This is in reality, pretty much exactly what a.i. is doing when you ask it to draw a tree as well. taking static, and "imagining" that static is a tree. pulling from its database. the a.i.'s database is just the internet. while your database is your entire life.
In a direct sense. concept artists steal and paint over peoples work all the time. grab a picture of a dog, paint over it to create a werewolf. shit like that.

Bannerlord warsails. people were discussing if the load screens were A.I. because of oddities in it. No. what it WAS, was a screenshot of the game the artists took. then painted over. so oddities, like scaffolding clipping through the sails were intact, becuase, thats what happens in game.
 
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Ambiturner

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yeah. there is plenty of valid issues with A.i. use in art, etc. but, the people making the most stink and noise, have no idea wtf they are talking about.

one argument I make is pointing out the collapse of the ladder. Saw it in comic book industry.
Inking. Inking used to be its own art form, and had its own job. But, late 2000's photoshop could alter levels and darken pencils, cleaning up the pencils without proper inking. companies of course decided do save 10--200$/page and stop hiring inkers.
now, everyone at the time said, "no big deal, the great inkers will still get work. if you are bad, too bad." And sure that was true.. for about 2 years.
then, the great inkers also started getting replaced. or retired. And, there was no longer anyone to replace them. As all the beginner, or medium level inkers lost their jobs, left the industry, or just in general no longer had the avenue to practice and get better on the job.
Same can be said with hiring foreign pencillers on the cheap. Its nearly impossible to FIND good American pencillers these days, because the jobs dried up, now there are none left. no one training to be the next great comic book artist.

That seems like an emotional problem more than a real on. Like when they stopped making VHS tapes, felt a little sad and nostalgic but that's not a reason to keep making something nobody uses
 
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Caliane

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That seems like an emotional problem more than a real on. Like when they stopped making VHS tapes, felt a little sad and nostalgic but that's not a reason to keep making something nobody uses
no thats a bad analogy.

its more like, woodworking, carpentry, or ironworking
you used to be able to find a carpenter that could build anything. or local ironworks everywhere.

But, at some point, lowes/ikea,etc, started selling premade railings, windows, furniture, etc. now, 90% of houses are ugly as sin pre-fab bullshit.
And, now, if you want custom railings, windows, woodwork, etc. Good fucking luck.
not only is the price astronomical if you can even find someone. Finding someone, is itself a task.
 

Ambiturner

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no thats a bad analogy.

its more like, woodworking, carpentry, or ironworking
you used to be able to find a carpenter that could build anything. or local ironworks everywhere.

But, at some point, lowes/ikea,etc, started selling premade railings, windows, furniture, etc. now, 90% of houses are ugly as sin pre-fab bullshit.
And, now, if you want custom railings, windows, woodwork, etc. Good fucking luck.
not only is the price astronomical if you can even find someone. Finding someone, is itself a task.

Now that's a bad analogy. AI is the opposite of everything being identical pre-made, mass produced shit. It's everyone now being able to make whatever furniture they want, however they want it, without needing to find and pay for those highly skilled people that dedicated their lives to something nobody needs anymore.
 

Hateyou

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Now that's a bad analogy. AI is the opposite of everything being identical pre-made, mass produced shit. It's everyone now being able to make whatever furniture they want, however they want it, without needing to find and pay for those highly skilled people that dedicated their lives to something nobody needs anymore.
Hell yeah AI furniture ftw

IMG_0386.jpeg
 
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Kuro

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I am baffled by this newspaper thing when everyone has used Ipsum Lorem shit for background newspapers forever
 
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Tholan

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It has nothing to do with AI and more to do with the fact that the team is mostly white males and the judges are :
1766417882771.png
 
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Phazael

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Can also do all hit runs as in builds that work better if you take damage, youtube has a few examples.
There are two optional bosses that require perfect parrying, but you can get around most of the rest without being perfect. Simon just one shots anyone he hits, even at L99 and is there for the asians and twitcher players. His windows are very narrow and reads are deliberately misleading (which is a common thing for most of the final act). The other optional guy gives you the Cheater Picto, which half the game is built around by the end, so I don't even know if you can consider him optional. At the point where you can engage him, he can one shot the entire group usually, but his attacks are not difficult to parry.

Oh yeah forgot the Energy Master Picto boss pretty much requires near perfect Parry as well. And if you don't beat him, your fights will take literally two to three times as long because Energy Master is second only to Cheater in importance. I could toss Obsiquio in there, but Sciel's AE cleanse trivializes that fight and the rewards are pretty meh. The bitch about that fight is the window for the Gradient parry at the end is very unclear and it takes a half hour to an hour to do the fight to get to the try on that timing.
 

Phazael

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Yeah, I’m also a later starter and am trying to avoid spoilers while just trying to find some early Act 3 builds, since the pattern seems to be I fly around, find something cool, watch my glass cannon first attack do maybe 10% of a mob’s health and then get utterly destroyed, go back to flying around, rinse and repeat. I could really use a win on something at this point, lol. Fuck I still need to kill that Sprong mother fucker in the water just chilling there like an asshole. I’m so terrible at timing, but yet this game’s still so fun.
1 Shot Maelle is semi workable fairly early, if you get her weapon at the first chance in the bush people village by using her in the final Arena fight. The main thing are the Pictos from the secret Arena, that weapon, and Stendahl/sacrifice HP skill combo. All are fairly easy to have by that point in the game and with the right combo of pictos (and some luck) you can murder Sprong before he even gets a turn. But you will basically rob yourself of practice with the other mechanics of this game if you lean on this build too much.

Feel justified in using it with impunity on roadblock twitch bosses, though. ITs the biggest flaw in an otherwise great game that all of these essential Pictos are gatekept by bosses who demand prefect parry timing. If you want to have bosses who one shot or completely wipe groups from missed parry timing, then you can't make the stuff deliberately deceptive and so narrow. Thats the main issue I have with the game, aside from the pacing in Act 3. Deliberately deceptive attack patterns (especially ones where the audio and visual cues are different) should result in some pain that requires you to divert action economy into recovering from the mistakes, not instant wipes.
 

Phazael

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Maybe if other companies used AI like Expedition 33 we'd get Actual good game again
Remember who AI is mostly being developed by. And lets not even talk about the AI thats really just a building full of poo slingers pretending to be AI......

AI derives its knowledge from human knowledge. Once people stop knowing how to do anything themselves anymore, the fucking wheels come off of everything. And game design by AI results in Ubisoft type slop. One of the main reasons games like BG3 and E33 are so good is the deliberate human element in the design. Everything hand generated with thought into it. There is a reason most procedurally generated games lose the interest of their userbase so fast. Meanwhile we are still talking about games like BG3, ER, and even FFT years after their release.
 
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