Crowfall

Vitality · Feb 12, 2015

Confessor modeling progress todayLink to official forum post

Convo · Feb 12, 2015

Wish these guys were making a pve game as well. They really seem to have it together

Big Flex · Feb 12, 2015

fessor model looks legit.

Convo_sl said:
Wish these guys were making a pve game as well. They really seem to have it together

Convo, we've know each other for years now, so I have to tell you, as a friend... its time for you to drop the training wheels and begin raiding the deadliest mobs of all, neckbeards.

Tuco · Feb 12, 2015

Byr_sl said:
Not a big fan of being able to trade VIP to other players for in game currency. Basically makes it ok to buy in game currency with $.

I agree. It doesn't matter whether the items confer any combat benefit, just whether there is a market for it. If you put tabards, dye, appearance-changing items, character/bag slot expansion etc behind a paywall and then allow people to buy it and sell it for gold you're just adding a roundabout way to buy gold. However if wealth and items are generally transient in nature it won't be as impactful. In ArcheAge if I had spent $3000 soon after release I would've been able to buy an incredible set of gear that would make me a 1% to this day. In Crowfall it seems like you could spend $3000, get a sick set of gear, lose it several times in fights and then not be able to take it into the next campaign.

Caliane · Feb 12, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
Confessor modeling progress todayLink to official forum post

theres the shoulderpads and hands bigger then heads.

Big Flex · Feb 12, 2015

Convo · Feb 12, 2015

Big Flex_sl said:
Convo, we've know each other for years now, so I have to tell you, as a friend... its time for you to drop the training wheels and begin raiding the deadliest mobs of all, neckbeards.

Ha. I like my pvp, just seems to be more options for it now a days. Im looking for that deep pve experience more.

Caliane · Feb 12, 2015

Tuco_sl said:
I wonder what personal kingdom means. I doubt this is the case but if you have to pay $5 for every person after 20 to add to your guild that would be funny.

If personal kingdoms mean some instanced and persistent world that builds as you participate in campaigns and has NPCs that are within a population cap that'd be weird.

well, when I talked about making guilds want to actively "recruit" solo players as vassels, someone commented, that it would make more sense to simply recruit them to the guild.
The answer to that, is of course the simple, guild members should cost a guild.
now this might be simple outfiting them properly costs more then a solo player, so a solo player is essentially generating resources a guild can use, while guild members are not.

or, we do consider something alot of RTS's have to prevent zergs. upkeep. If larger guilds have higher and higher upkeep costs, players then have an incentive to keep it small, and not just zerg ball around. (of course, some other means to prevent alliances, Teampseak, and (PRX1, PRX2, PRX3) circumventing this, would also be required)
I wasn't really thinking real money for this of course..

Bain · Feb 12, 2015

Personal Kingdom was alluded to being your private kingdom in the Eternal Kingdoms which would have a customizable ruleset and a setting on whether or not it was open for other players or not, IE. you could make your world a hub for trading if you wanted to and advertise it to other players to get traffic into your world. They also mentioned something about being able to tax goods sold on your world in EK if you wanted/other neat options. Maybe flex can find a link, I'm lazy <3

Edit: Thanks for the exceptionally well written anonymous neg. "U R fag"

Draegan_sl · Feb 12, 2015

Tuco_sl said:
I agree. It doesn't matter whether the items confer any combat benefit, just whether there is a market for it. If you put tabards, dye, appearance-changing items, character/bag slot expansion etc behind a paywall and then allow people to buy it and sell it for gold you're just adding a roundabout way to buy gold. However if wealth and items are generally transient in nature it won't be as impactful. In ArcheAge if I had spent $3000 soon after release I would've been able to buy an incredible set of gear that would make me a 1% to this day. In Crowfall it seems like you could spend $3000, get a sick set of gear, lose it several times in fights and then not be able to take it into the next campaign.

To me it seems like these guys know how to handle that. We'll see though, but I like the pay scheme.

Tuco · Feb 12, 2015

Draegan_sl said:
To me it seems like these guys know how to handle that. We'll see though, but I like the pay scheme.

It all goes back to the conflict of interest discussion earlier. If these guys put out cosmetic items behind a paywall and make them tradeable, then see that 90% of the cash shop sales were subsequently sold for gold and the whales are consistently the best geared players in a campaign it'd be a difficult choice to make them non-tradeable. I'm not too concerned about it for the reasons I stated above. A dropable loot system along with loot being lost at the end of the campaign means that spending $$$ on ingame assets is a fool's choice.

Caliane_sl said:
well, when I talked about making guilds want to actively "recruit" solo players as vassels, someone commented, that it would make more sense to simply recruit them to the guild.
The answer to that, is of course the simple, guild members should cost a guild.
now this might be simple outfiting them properly costs more then a solo player, so a solo player is essentially generating resources a guild can use, while guild members are not.

or, we do consider something alot of RTS's have to prevent zergs. upkeep. If larger guilds have higher and higher upkeep costs, players then have an incentive to keep it small, and not just zerg ball around. (of course, some other means to prevent alliances, Teampseak, and (PRX1, PRX2, PRX3) circumventing this, would also be required)
I wasn't really thinking real money for this of course..

Sounds like chickenshit rules to force players to play a certain way instead of formulating a coherent game design that players choose to play a certain way. The 'upkeep' costs in guilds is inherent. If you're a leader you log into the game and spend half the time dealing with stuff you wouldn't have to if you had a guild with 10 other people.

Vitality · Feb 12, 2015

Tuco, what if most of the items from the cash shop can be looted from another player in PVP on kill? Or destroyed if you destroy a guild bank or item transfer cart?

Like in EVE if a ship is carrying a Plex and gets popped.

Draegan_sl · Feb 12, 2015

Tuco_sl said:
It all goes back to the conflict of interest discussion earlier. If these guys put out cosmetic items behind a paywall and make them tradeable, then see that 90% of the cash shop sales were subsequently sold for gold and the whales are consistently the best geared players in a campaign it'd be a difficult choice to make them non-tradeable. I'm not too concerned about it for the reasons I stated above. A dropable loot system along with loot being lost at the end of the campaign means that spending $$$ on ingame assets is a fool's choice.

Honestly, if whales can by cosmetics, and trade them for in game stuff. Who cares. Someone has to do the farming, crafting, mining to get that stuff and to get that stuff you have to hopefully have to use guild elements to protect it and farm it. I dunno, I think it works real well with EVE and their system. Money only gets you so far. But you're right, if it works like AA wherre you can just buy all the mats and win, it'll be dumb. But AA's crafting system is shitty to begin with.

Vitality · Feb 12, 2015

Draegan_sl said:
Honestly, if whales can by cosmetics, and trade them for in game stuff. Who cares. Someone has to do the farming, crafting, mining to get that stuff and to get that stuff you have to hopefully have to use guild elements to protect it and farm it. I dunno, I think it works real well with EVE and their system. Money only gets you so far. But you're right, if it works like AA wherre you can just buy all the mats and win, it'll be dumb. But AA's crafting system is shitty to begin with.

I made 2 billion isk on people under valuing cosmetics on the market. Never spent a dime.

Edit: From Tom B

Posted Today, 07:12 PM

Just wanted to clear this up since I've been seeing a reoccurring question on it and we didn't cover it in the FAQ:
The only item purchased from the shop that we intend to allow players to trade is the VIP membership tokens.

What players use for trade for these tokens I'm not sure yet. We are giving the players the tools of an economy but what becomes the defacto unit for trade will be decided by what people start selling their goods for. Could be wood, ore, ore smelted into coins, if so which ore is the one used? Fun times for sure!

gogojira_sl · Feb 12, 2015

Convo_sl said:
Ha. I like my pvp, just seems to be more options for it now a days. Im looking for that deep pve experience more.

Same. Actually I've never really had fun doing PVP in an MMO because by and large I think the mechanics make for a less than ideal pairing. I play online comptetive games, just not so much in this genre.

Tuco · Feb 12, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
Tuco, what if most of the items from the cash shop can be looted from another player in PVP on kill? Or destroyed if you destroy a guild bank or item transfer cart?

It'll devalue the item, lowering the amount of wealth a credit-card warrior will get from the sale. That's the core reason I'm not that concerned about p2w at this point.

I think the key thing to fight p2w is make it so that accruing any kind of wealth at a good rate is challenging and always involves PvP. Bots and chinese farmers aren't going to invest in Irondick Mine, guard it and guard the supply lines and fight off bands of PKs. And if the only way to get get it from mines like Irondick, then bots and gimpy farmers aren't going to get Iron. Make it the same for Goldnuts Mine, Shitshow Pasture (for cattle), Manatits Fountain (for enchantment dust and potions). And if organized groups of players are banding together, getting wealth by growing cotton on Pubic Fields' farms and then selling that wealth for USD, fuck it, they've earned it and are a part of the game in a way that bots and gold farmers aren't. Hell we had one group of professional Indonesian gold farmers on Kyrios that did this via fishing.

Besides that one of the major ways people p2w is by buying accounts or buying liquidated accounts from players who quit. If you lose all your gold and items when a campaign ends, by the time you quit mid-campaign and have a ton of money, it's not worth much USD.

Tuco · Feb 12, 2015

Vitality_sl said:
Tuco, what if most of the items from the cash shop can be looted from another player in PVP on kill? Or destroyed if you destroy a guild bank or item transfer cart?

It'll devalue the item, lowering the amount of wealth a credit-card warrior will get from the sale. That's the core reason I'm not that concerned about p2w at this point.

I think the key thing to fight p2w is make it so that accruing any kind of wealth at a good rate is challenging and always involves PvP. Bots and chinese farmers aren't going to invest in Irondick Mine, guard it and guard the supply lines and fight off bands of PKs. And if the only way to get get it from mines like Irondick, then bots and gimpy farmers aren't going to get Iron. Make it the same for Goldnuts Mine, Shitshow Pasture (for cattle), Manatits Fountain (for enchantment dust and potions). And if organized groups of players are banding together, getting wealth by growing cotton on Pubic Fields' farms and then selling that wealth for USD, fuck it, they've earned it and are a part of the game in a way that bots and gold farmers aren't. Hell we had one group of professional Indonesian gold farmers on Kyrios that did this via fishing.

Besides that one of the major ways people p2w is by buying accounts or buying liquidated accounts from players who quit. If you lose all your gold and items when a campaign ends, by the time you quit mid-campaign and have a ton of money, it's not worth much USD.

Rogosh · Feb 12, 2015

Convo_sl said:
Ha. I like my pvp, just seems to be more options for it now a days. Im looking for that deep pve experience more.

Let us know when you find that, I still have yet to see a game that really takes me back to what EQ was like leveling and advancing.

Teekey · Feb 12, 2015

Rogosh_sl said:
Let us know when you find that, I still have yet to see a game that really takes me back to what EQ was like leveling and advancing.

You likely never will since leveling is almost exclusively a solo thing nowadays.

Teekey · Feb 12, 2015

Just wanted to clear this up since I've been seeing a reoccurring question on it and we didn't cover it in the FAQ:
The only item purchased from the shop that we intend to allow players to trade is the VIP membership tokens.

What players use for trade for these tokens I'm not sure yet. We are giving the players the tools of an economy but what becomes the defacto unit for trade will be decided by what people start selling their goods for. Could be wood, ore, ore smelted into coins, if so which ore is the one used? Fun times for sure!

Confirmation of no actual currency that is dropped/looted/rewarded?

I personally love the idea of it. Really reinforces the player crafting mantra.

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