Dark Souls 2

Budos

Golden Knight of the Realm
592
10
Don't sleep on the Estoc either. Rapier that scales well with str; power stanced they rape pretty good.
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,264
2,718
Uh, look at the video from the same guy doing a longsword moveset, it's fairly noticeable that it's quite a bit faster.

Dark Souls 2 Long Sword Move Set - YouTube

And longsword is a fairly slow "1H". Estoc is slightly faster and has generally as much reach as most 2H, granted it's piercing attacks so it's not good against group of mobs, scimitars and katanas are much faster and obviously daggers even faster. Seemed fine to me, even though against many bosses you do have enough time for one big swing from a slow weapon or 2 small swings from a fast weapon and the big swing gives you more damage, quite often, but against other bosses you don't have the time and the faster weapons becomes more useful.
It's hard to get an exact comparison, since he does the full 4 swings with the longsword, but only 3 with the bastard. Even so, the difference is less than 1 second for 4 swings. And the argument is:

"milliseconds? lolwut, the big weapons are slow as fuck and have huge recovery."

"The speed difference to most is drastic."


Edit: Forgot to add, it's not just about the speed. It's the speed plus the range/cleave, plus the damage.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
That one second I found mattered on bosses with my playstyle personally.

I used mace (that is similarly slow) for blunt weak stuff that had long windows, and Heide KS and better when I needed quick stuff.

I can't imagine wasting the extra seconds on Smelter, Ancient, Giant Lord, and others. (prenerf NG+ Flexile would likely be close to impossible with a slow 2H)
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Note: When my weight allowance was appropriate I would use 2H for many trash clears though. But most DS2 trash it's good for aren't really noteworthy.
 

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
in the forgotten Bastille, I have to use a homeward bone to get back to the bonfire if I dont want to fight through it?
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,264
2,718
That one second I found mattered on bosses with my playstyle personally.

I used mace (that is similarly slow) for blunt weak stuff that had long windows, and Heide KS and better when I needed quick stuff.

I can't imagine wasting the extra seconds on Smelter, Ancient, Giant Lord, and others. (prenerf NG+ Flexile would likely be close to impossible with a slow 2H)
It's not a second, it's quite a bit less. Milliseconds. If you don't want to waste them, that's your business.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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877
You do understand they've got a longer delay before you can shield up or roll as well, right?

Swing time alone doesn't account for recovery time too. Perhaps it's perspective, but it felt like a good 20-30% difference.
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,264
2,718
You do understand they've got a longer delay before you can shield up or roll as well, right?

Swing time alone doesn't account for recovery time too. Perhaps it's perspective, but it felt like a good 20-30% difference.
Adaptability speeds up shield raise. Are you still basing this off memory? Cause I've had the game open this whole time and I've been testing. The differences you're talking about are miniscule. Also, the shield raise time with the bastard sword isn't as bad as it could be, since you are raising your shield and raising your sword back to your shoulder at the same time.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
At the hospital with the wife til tomorrow so, yes mostly off memory.

Although running the YouTube videos of movesets with some comparisons with her and my matching phones side by side looks around a full second to me on swing alone. Besides slooooow 1H like maces. But I don't have a third device to stopwatch.

Regardless apply it real world on Smelter and Pursuer 2 before committing to them being the end all eternally. BKGS is amazing many places though but mostly for packs. (good for the kitties near Doors too - those suuuuuck 1H IMO)
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,264
2,718
At the hospital with the wife til tomorrow so, yes mostly off memory.

Although running the YouTube videos of movesets with some comparisons with her and my matching phones side by side looks around a full second to me on swing alone. Besides slooooow 1H like maces. But I don't have a third device to stopwatch.

Regardless apply it real world on Smelter and Pursuer 2 before committing to them being the end all eternally. BKGS is amazing many places though but mostly for packs. (good for the kitties near Doors too - those suuuuuck 1H IMO)
Like I said, it's not just the speed, which is barely different. (Looks to me like less than a second per 4 swings, that's a very small difference per swing) It's the tiny bit of downside to all the upside. I used katanas in DS1, so it wasn't an issue, and greatswords had more downside there as well. Not a huge deal, just feels a little off. Maybe it's just that longswords should be faster, like the broadsword.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Longswords weren't generally my go to - they did seem slow in comparison to the others. Curved category and HKS more often.
 

axeman_sl

shitlord
592
0
I'm doing a spear playthrough and spears are just so shit. Most of them have 50 durability, which isn't quite enough (especially on a weapon that's prone to striking walls), and their damage is really low. They're miserable against armor, they're awful for AoE, and most of them don't even really have much more reach than a sword's thrust or any larger weapon's R2 attack. The ability to attack with a shield raised is of marginal value as the damage of these attacks is less than half of a regular R1. There are very few noteworthy spears in the game as well, it's missing stuff like the mastodon weapons or Ricard's Rapier. There's just Santier's Spear which works for one specific build only.
 

Vorph

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
11,077
4,846
There's just Santier's Spear which works for one specific build only.
If you want the feel of a dex build without being gimped by the terrible dex weapons and scaling this time around, you really should try it once you're SL129 (22 dex/20 in the rest).
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,264
2,718
If you want the feel of a dex build without being gimped by the terrible dex weapons and scaling this time around, you really should try it once you're SL129 (22 dex/20 in the rest).
Terrible dex scaling? You must meancreativedex weaponbalancing, right? Cause ain't nothing wrong with this game, bro. I'm sure the devs only did it so you'd have the pleasure of trying other types of weapons, get ya out of your comfort zone, ya know?
 

Vorph

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
11,077
4,846
Yes, my bad. That's exactly what I meant to say.

And hey, mission accomplished I guess--if not for the, uh, creative dex balancing I would never have considered the possibility that a mundane spear could be the best weapon in the game.
 

Araxen

Golden Baronet of the Realm
10,295
7,653
They turned on VAC for the PC version. Hopefully it works to keep some of the cheaters out.
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,181
30,394
Spears are good for defensive one on one boss fights, but not much else this game. The reach was amazingly useful on Smelter and for drilling shit in narrow corridors. The Halberd is a much better weapon of similar moves. The BKH, in particular, is a very good option for modest stat investment. My mage character is still maining it. Spears and Halberds are still good for methodical mele, just not as ezmode pve like in Demons Souls.

The timing stuff with the Great Sword, I just do not see. My tanky build with a BKGS does just fine against all bosses, even one shotting Pursuer 2.0 with it. The issue with smelter is the fire damage pulses raping you late in the fight. The BKGS worked decent for me in normal PvP, too (by normal I mean people running PvE setups for fun) and it absolutely destroys in coop when someone else is there to draw the heat.