Diablo 3 - Reaper of Souls
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Amzin
Lord Nagafen Raider
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I don't see why it's a good thing that if I rolled a paladin and cleared through the game on hell, that if I wanted to build a hammerdin, I would then clear through the game on hellagain. Sure, once you HAVE a hammerdin it played and was used differently than an auradin or whatever you wound up as the first time through, but it takes a bunch of needless bullshit to get there. And now you have respecs in D2, which basically negates that argument anyway?
There's probably at minimum two distinct ways to play each class in D3 at level 60. I have all 5 classes leveled to 60 in probably less time than it would take me to level 10 different specs in D2, by far. So I have 10 distinct ways to fuck off in D3 farming gear for eons with less time wasted to get there, and without any arbitrary restrictions keeping me from trying NEW styles that emerge as patches come out. It seems like a big win for gamers. If I ever get the desire to play HC, I'll probably have 1 more of each class at 60 eventually, or if my wife picks up the game or something like that, so I could play through with her too.
But until then, I'll enjoy being able to play any class I want any way I want without having to waste hours and hours going from level 1 on again.
There's probably at minimum two distinct ways to play each class in D3 at level 60. I have all 5 classes leveled to 60 in probably less time than it would take me to level 10 different specs in D2, by far. So I have 10 distinct ways to fuck off in D3 farming gear for eons with less time wasted to get there, and without any arbitrary restrictions keeping me from trying NEW styles that emerge as patches come out. It seems like a big win for gamers. If I ever get the desire to play HC, I'll probably have 1 more of each class at 60 eventually, or if my wife picks up the game or something like that, so I could play through with her too.
But until then, I'll enjoy being able to play any class I want any way I want without having to waste hours and hours going from level 1 on again.
Foggy
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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It is far more likely you don't remember D2 very well. Of course Etadanik used one of the shittiest examples possible. The Druid alone offers more diversity in play style than any class in D3. Really, all of the classes except for Sorc and Barb allowed for a wide range in play style that isn't really possible with D3 classes. The nerco had three different widely accepted army builds and that is just one tree. There was also bone or poison builds or some of the curse builds for grouping. The Sorc, despite being one of the least diverse classes still had as many ways to play as the Wizard, choosing to use glass cannon builds, up close builds, balanced builds, or tanking builds. With the right items even Barbs and Sorcs could pull off some crazy shit like melee Sorc with enchant or throwing Barb. Hell, Pally had Zealadin, Smitadin, Hammerdin, and Chipadin which isn't counting the more unique builds like FoH, Conversion, or Aura.
Did you even play D2? Hours to level... wut? Also, the Paragon system (which is terrible) pretty much fucks your play whatever class you want thing, unless you don't enjoy maximizing your farming ability or just like wasting your time. Power leveling a new class into the 70s in order to play around with a new build takes a whole lot less time than leveling to 60 and upping your paragon ranking.
Need more bitches playing, solo farm = boring
quick question does MP+NV stacks effect the roll of an item? i say no people in trade arguing it does, wanna clarify. for legendarys.
quick question does MP+NV stacks effect the roll of an item? i say no people in trade arguing it does, wanna clarify. for legendarys.
Nice argument. Wait, what argument?
Garbage post, and I'm fairly sure I played both EQ and Diablo & its clones and predecessors for far longer than you ever did.
One was a PBAOE.
One was a line pierce.
One was a target seeking missile.
See how there is zero overlap between these skills?
Poison Nova and Bone Spirit have entirely different synergies and support skills and play styles, which is why these two examples were chosen. Even Spear and Spirit required you to move and aim differently.
Frogs and bombs, on the other hand, do not. Both are: left click on the center of the pack and spam, and because the runes are so badly balanced in Diablo 3, there was only one way to rune them.
So out of four primary attacks a WD got, you had two skills that did the same thing, one single target ranged skill, and another skill that nobody used because it was worse.
That's why the *amount* of skills in Diablo 3 is overrated.
Enob
Golden Knight of the Realm
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Yes and no but mostly yes. The guaranteed item at 5 NV stacks is always a rare minimum but it doesn't have any higher chance to become a legendary than any other drop from elites/champs. However MP 25% per level and NV 15% per stack does affect all drops including the 5 NV guaranteed rare. As magic find in this game doesn't give you more drops it gives you better quality drops so yes, it is affecting the roll of all of your drops in a positive way.
The only thing that does increase item drop rate is MP with a bonus % chance for mobs to drop items per MP. The bonus item roll only affects white mobs and not elites/champs. It also doesn't scale linearly with the low MP giving less than 10% per stack but still reaching 100% at MP10.
Kreugen
Vyemm Raider
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But how much "value" is the replay when all you are doing is leveling the same goddamn class again and your build doesn't even start working until you have 30-50 levels in it? You are extending the /played time with something extremely boring - like needing 15 minutes to regen mana in Everquest. There's just no upside to me.
To me that's like, people who argue that playing a FPS with a gamepad is "just as good" as a mouse. (or is even tolerable for that matter. If I want to drive a car or fly a jet, I'll use a joystick. A FPS? fuck no) Its like.. people who say group finder or instances ruin MMORPGs. Or a man who thinks he is a woman inside and so he goes and get a doctor to cave up his penis.
There are a lot of people who think this way, and are quite passionate about it. I've read their justifications. They may as well be trying to tell me the earth is flat or God exists.
Clearly, the team that made D3 does not share their view. They think there is enough game to play for hundreds of hours without needing to start over again over and over on the same class. They probably think of people who expect to get thousands of hours of replay out of the game as some sort of strange alien species.
Could be wrong but I think he's asking if it affects the stats on an item when you identify it.
There's a special reward for those with 500 days played. I won't spoiler what it is, but I think most people will be pleasantly shocked by the reward.
Enob
Golden Knight of the Realm
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In that case also yes and no. Quality of affixes is based only on monster level so level 63 monsters can all offer the best stats per affix. These are MP0 act 3/4 and all acts in MP1+. Magic find (including from MP and NV) give you a better chance to get more number of affixes than without. So obviously a 4 affix item could be better than a 6 affix item due to stat randomness since they roll in the same range but you're clearly better off getting more 6 affix items.
Amzin
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Yes, hours. Go try and level from 1 to 60 or 70 and farming/trading for all the gear for whatever random build you want. Then again for another build. Then again for another build. Then again for another build. Do that 10 times and I guarantee it will be longer than I spent playing from 1-60 in Diablo 3 five times, and again, I get as much or more versatility out of my 5 times than you will out of your 10 for how to play the game. People can argue that Bonespear, Poison Nova etc. all are more different than D3 spells but that is bullshit. Those spells you spammed to kill shit. In diablo 3, there's even more spells you can spam to kill shit, that are either lines/close ae's/far ae's/bouncy ae's/arcs/etc. There were almost no builds in Diablo 2 that weren't just different ways of killing shit, and there are damn plenty of those in Diablo 3, and both games have probably an equal amount of 'support' builds, which is to say like 2.
On top of that, where in Diablo 2 you had to know exactly what you were doing for at least half (if not more) of the accepted builds, plus which specific items to farm/trade/dupe for, and then your one build you spent all that time trading, farming, grinding for had probably less skills used than any single build in Diablo 3. Builds which for the most part aren't pigeon-holed at all, with almost every build people putting their own particular different passive or rune or backup skills into it. If replay-ability is just being measured as a way of FORCING you to play the game again all the way through to try a new build, then replay-ability can get the fuck out of gaming.
The druid from Diablo 2 lets you: Nuke shit, or Melee shit. It gives you various ways of doing that. There wasn't much unique about playing a druid other than just being cooler than everyone else. Saying that the druid offers more diversity than any class in Diablo 3 just shows that you aren't at all objective, at all, and thus all you're doing is spouting opinions into an argument, which is failure in of itself.
The paragon system slowly let's you diversify your gear away from MF items IF you want to min/max your items-per-minute rate. It doesn't force jack or shit because you can completely make up the difference of going from a paragon 100 to a paragon 0 character with minimal effort, if you even care enough. The great thing about Diablo 3 in it's current state is that you can farm with almost any build on any class that you find fun. If it's less efficient, then it is, but if that's all you care about, then you can grind up that uber, most-efficient farming build and run that until there's a new better one next month, then farm that up, and repeat, and whammo, you've got your Diablo 2 replay-ability right there.
Diablo 2 does have some (few) things that are objectively better than Diablo 3, but not many anymore, and it has many things that are just obviously worse. If, despite those flaws, it remains more fun to you than Diablo 3, then fine, go play it. I'm sure the traders and Baal will be happy to have one more person hanging out with them for another 10 years. Just quit arguing opinions.
Most of the builds in D2 sucked anyways but it was so easy to get carried by other players it didn't matter. Make sure you have pickit and you can farm as effectively as anyone in Baal runs. You want to farm solo then you have a specific character for that, nobody is gonna be farming shit on a throw baba. You can make a bunch of stupid unique builds in D3 too but if you ever mention that people will just call you an idiot.
Another thing, D2 is easily my favorite game ever, I played that shit for years. But I never used bots to farm for items and almost always played hardcore. I have to wonder how many people who praise D2 used bots to farm for gear 24/7 because sometimes people say shit and it's like I played a completely different game.
Another thing, D2 is easily my favorite game ever, I played that shit for years. But I never used bots to farm for items and almost always played hardcore. I have to wonder how many people who praise D2 used bots to farm for gear 24/7 because sometimes people say shit and it's like I played a completely different game.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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For me a problem is that items boil down to +dmg or +defense for almost every slot. The game needs more build-specific itemization imo, similar to what runes do to the skills (those used to be items but were cut back into a skill feature due to bag space concerns). I want to tailor my items to my build more then I can now, but its right only possible with very specific skills that are boosted by a legendary or one of the rare spell-affecting suffixes (and among those, most still boil down to +dmg). Not to pour gasoline on the D2 flame war but that was something nice about runewords.
I like the changes to the PTR. I thought it was kind of strange that bosses had a 50% chance regardless of the MP level to drop the plans. Since I just leave my games on MP5 I'm still running a 50% ('ish) shot anyways. Only bad part is I don't see me leaving Act3/Ghom to farm them. The bosses in Act1 are too far out of the way to incorporate them into my farming runs and for Act2 I prefer to find VoA and use that as my WP for each time I recreate a game. So it is kind of up to just farming Levels1/3 then killing Ghom + Keywarden. I have a feeling I'm going to be drowning in Act3 keys here soon.
Amzin
Lord Nagafen Raider
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I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of rune-ish system in an expansion. Speaking of which, is there even any confirmation that they are working on one? They've changed a ton and a half about the game through patches but not really added any content beyond the key wardens and now the PvP area (Ubers are recycled bosses so that half counts I suppose).
Haast
Lord Nagafen Raider
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