Diablo 3 - Reaper of Souls

Juvarisx

Florida
3,877
4,068
Especially one where the class shown had a point blank AoE port + explosions deal. That crusader weapon would be a huge change to how you would play the class. Anyways Diablo 2 is mostly nostaglia, and while Diablo 3 certainly was flawed they made it a much improved game over the year after release. Getting your panties in a bunch over what a weapon might have stat wise in a game that isnt out for 6+ months is retarded anyways.
 

j00t

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,380
7,476
the question i have is, how many people who are complaining of d3 being an utter failure have over 100 hours in it, and how many of those people got it for free on top of that? it's VERY easy to lambaste blizzard but the fact of the matter is... what other arpg's are people playing right now? PoE and torchlight? i had some fun with torchlight, but it's not even like that had any innovative ideas or designs. i'm not even going to get into rts' and mmo's... there simply isn't any competition on the market in those genres right now.

d3 is FAR from perfect, but come on... it was hipster to hate on blizzard 6 years ago... now it's come full circle and it's hipster to like it again. that's stupid.
 

Twilering

Trakanon Raider
21
14
This expansion reveal is very underwhelming. Where is the new feature that no one was expecting? This is all just evolution, where is the revolution? I can see the expansion being interesting for a little while but its still the same game.
 

W4RH34D_sl

shitlord
661
3
This expansion reveal is very underwhelming. Where is the new feature that no one was expecting? This is all just evolution, where is the revolution? I can see the expansion being interesting for a little while but its still the same game.
Well most expansions expand on original content...
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,209
2,361
How is that sad? A weapon that procs cyclone strike is pretty awesome for a melee character.
I think he means the part where it says Damage/Toughness only in the sumup, but I think that's fine since that's well, the sum. It doesn't take into account the proc which is definitely great.

I do hope like someone said there's a necro class hidden reveal coming too. This I would like, and considering they went crusader even though there's monk already, surely they can go necro even though there's witch doctor already. I think they kinda fucked themselves when they designed the base classes to be amalgams of the previous classes though, result is any typical class they add is going to feel like an existing class already. Other than Druid, that'd work well. Too bad it doesn't fit the expansion theme at all, unless you stretch it(and they honestly could, The power of Life is in peril, the Druid awakens from his millenia slumber to fight for all that is green, down with the blue hordes of Death).
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,036
Anyone notice the legendary items are "account bound"? Is that their solution to the bad economic/farming decisions in the game? Just make it account bound, and then make it rain items with "smart loot"? Ugh, no thanks. Account bound shit is the worst part of the new breed of MMO/Online games. Don't get me wrong, I understand the logic behind it, but it seems like a pretty lazy solution that has hundreds of knock on effects throughout the game.

As for original D3. I didn't think the game was "bad"...Rather, I think the bad taste was taking everything exciting about the game, and distilling it down to it's most boring and derivative components. It's a prime example of missed opportunity. Fore example, the rune system.

It should have stayed plugged into itemization in some way. Originally it was intended that runes would be drops, but they found there were too many runes and it was too complex, so they abandoned the idea of it. But what if they didn't 180 and instead kept some rune affectations on items. Then combined with this Paragon systems, to create a "recipe" for large changes to skills based on gear, experience spent and rune selection.

First, make it so each Rune has "levels" again. Lets say the levels are 1-10. So, level 1 Blood Funnel=.5% life gain per damage of WW. Level 2 Blood Funnel=1% life gain per damage of WW, Hurricane=+10% speed while WW. Each level can be raised by investing "Paragon" points into it. But the more points you invest into WW runes, the higher the investment becomes in a "soft cap" gain type system. But you choose whether to buy horizontally (More runes) or vertically (Higher power from specific runes)....

So lets say you spend one Paragon Point and buy 1 Blood Funnel rune, so your WW now returns .5% life per damage. The next purchase in the WW "Rune" skill would now cost, say, 4 Paragon Points. You could choose to buy the Hurricane Rune and get +10% speed while Whirl Winding, or you could buy an additional level of Blood Funnel and go to 1% Return on WW. Then the purchase after that would cost16points (And so on until it reaches levels you can't buy, very quickly, IE a soft cap "grind") So someone who buys 2 Hurricane/1 Blood Funnel would have a "Storm of Blood" rune (+20% Speed/+.5% Life Drain)...While someone with 3 Blood Funnel would have a "Vampire Dervish" Rune (1.5% Life Drain)...And then someone with say 2 Blood and one Volcanic would have a "Burning Blood" Rune. (Ect ect...The combinations players choose to buy, create specific runes, with the effects of the purchases added together.) And you could even have cut offs, so say a four facet rune would not only get the abilities of the runes added up, but also a small "recipe" bonus, like some runes in D2 had. So 2 Hurricane, 2 Blood Funnel=Torrent of Blood (+20% Speed, 1% Life Drain, Can Randomly Spawn Blood Vortex pools on the ground that drain enemies in them)

In addition. Gear itself would ALSO give bonuses to runes. So Breast Plate of Blood might give +1 Rune Level for Blood Funnel. Or Breast Plate of Blood Dervish might give +1 Hurricane/+1 Blood Funnel. Or Legendary-Super-Rare Chest Plate of God might give +1 to all runes in the Whirl Wind skill already at 1 or higher (So really rewarding horizontal progressive people who bought a lot of level 1 runes.)...But another Legendary Chest might give +3 to the X rune if the Runes level is over 3 already. (So rewarding players who went vertical on one skill).

They could really make tons of gear augmentations built right into the rune system, working with ground out bonuses in skills, to give people very distinct builds. And these builds could be completely changed by a drop. If you get a Weapon that gives +3 to Blood Funnel, if you have 3 points already, that could completely make a WW build work, but only a specific kind of WW build. While someone else with a +1 Hurricane/+1Wind Shear would build something else.

And the thing is, you'd create investment in certain trees. Players who do Whirl Wind builds would have to invest a ton of time notjustgettingitemsfor those builds, butalsobuilding up their skills with Paragon Points to make the skills better, sometimes to even activate the special "bonuses" on the items (IE Sword gives +1 to all Cleave Runes if the player has 1 point in every rune). So there would be distinction among the builds (And you could even make it so changing a skill makes you lose points, making it a huge undertaking to build and try a new skill set.)


Anyway, the above is just some bullshit thoughts...But it shows how DEEP some systems in D3 COULD have been. But instead we got this generic, very bland set of systems and it was so disappointing. That was D3's greatest loss. It's not a bad game, it's just an enormous amount of wasted potential. They turned a Steak Dinner into a Mcdonalds Cheesburger.
 

Azrayne

Irenicus did nothing wrong
2,161
786
IMHO the immunity system was the worst part about Diablo 2
I'll second that, though it wouldn't be as bad in D3 with the ability to respec on the fly (and fuck the haters, I still think the D3 skill system is a huge improvement, being stuck with one build permanently on each character is straight up terrible game design).
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
19,430
-10,740
I think he means the part where it says Damage/Toughness only in the sumup, but I think that's fine since that's well, the sum. It doesn't take into account the proc which is definitely great.
That has been in the game from the start, they just tweaked it to merge +Life and +Protection.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
276
Mr. Creed, I'm not sure I follow you. You're saying your weapon shouldn't be the most important part of your dps?
Well yes but the way you phrase it makes it sound stupid. What I mean is the weapon is too important compared to the entire remaining set of gear, because except for very few pieces any dps additions on armor are percentile improvements that are based on the weapon. One way could be having more +min/max damage on slots or higher values of those compared to the weapon base damage. Of course the weapon still matters most then but not quite as much. You can compensate a mediocre weapon with good armor stats, you cant really do that currently.



Anyone notice the legendary items are "account bound"? Is that their solution to the bad economic/farming decisions in the game? Just make it account bound, and then make it rain items with "smart loot"? Ugh, no thanks. Account bound shit is the worst part of the new breed of MMO/Online games. Don't get me wrong, I understand the logic behind it, but it seems like a pretty lazy solution that has hundreds of knock on effects throughout the game.

As for original D3. I didn't think the game was "bad"...Rather, I think the bad taste was taking everything exciting about the game, and distilling it down to it's most boring and derivative components. It's a prime example of missed opportunity. Fore example, the rune system.

It should have stayed plugged into itemization in some way. Originally it was intended that runes would be drops, but they found there were too many runes and it was too complex, so they abandoned the idea of it. But what if they didn't 180 and instead kept some rune affectations on items. Then combined with this Paragon systems, to create a "recipe" for large changes to skills based on gear, experience spent and rune selection.

First, make it so each Rune has "levels" again. Lets say the levels are 1-10. So, level 1 Blood Funnel=.5% life gain per damage of WW. Level 2 Blood Funnel=1% life gain per damage of WW, Hurricane=+10% speed while WW. Each level can be raised by investing "Paragon" points into it. But the more points you invest into WW runes, the higher the investment becomes in a "soft cap" gain type system. But you choose whether to buy horizontally (More runes) or vertically (Higher power from specific runes)....

So lets say you spend one Paragon Point and buy 1 Blood Funnel rune, so your WW now returns .5% life per damage. The next purchase in the WW "Rune" skill would now cost, say, 4 Paragon Points. You could choose to buy the Hurricane Rune and get +10% speed while Whirl Winding, or you could buy an additional level of Blood Funnel and go to 1% Return on WW. Then the purchase after that would cost16points (And so on until it reaches levels you can't buy, very quickly, IE a soft cap "grind") So someone who buys 2 Hurricane/1 Blood Funnel would have a "Storm of Blood" rune (+20% Speed/+.5% Life Drain)...While someone with 3 Blood Funnel would have a "Vampire Dervish" Rune (1.5% Life Drain)...And then someone with say 2 Blood and one Volcanic would have a "Burning Blood" Rune. (Ect ect...The combinations players choose to buy, create specific runes, with the effects of the purchases added together.) And you could even have cut offs, so say a four facet rune would not only get the abilities of the runes added up, but also a small "recipe" bonus, like some runes in D2 had. So 2 Hurricane, 2 Blood Funnel=Torrent of Blood (+20% Speed, 1% Life Drain, Can Randomly Spawn Blood Vortex pools on the ground that drain enemies in them)

In addition. Gear itself would ALSO give bonuses to runes. So Breast Plate of Blood might give +1 Rune Level for Blood Funnel. Or Breast Plate of Blood Dervish might give +1 Hurricane/+1 Blood Funnel. Or Legendary-Super-Rare Chest Plate of God might give +1 to all runes in the Whirl Wind skill already at 1 or higher (So really rewarding horizontal progressive people who bought a lot of level 1 runes.)...But another Legendary Chest might give +3 to the X rune if the Runes level is over 3 already. (So rewarding players who went vertical on one skill).

They could really make tons of gear augmentations built right into the rune system, working with ground out bonuses in skills, to give people very distinct builds. And these builds could be completely changed by a drop. If you get a Weapon that gives +3 to Blood Funnel, if you have 3 points already, that could completely make a WW build work, but only a specific kind of WW build. While someone else with a +1 Hurricane/+1Wind Shear would build something else.

And the thing is, you'd create investment in certain trees. Players who do Whirl Wind builds would have to invest a ton of time notjustgettingitemsfor those builds, butalsobuilding up their skills with Paragon Points to make the skills better, sometimes to even activate the special "bonuses" on the items (IE Sword gives +1 to all Cleave Runes if the player has 1 point in every rune). So there would be distinction among the builds (And you could even make it so changing a skill makes you lose points, making it a huge undertaking to build and try a new skill set.)


Anyway, the above is just some bullshit thoughts...But it shows how DEEP some systems in D3 COULD have been. But instead we got this generic, very bland set of systems and it was so disappointing. That was D3's greatest loss. It's not a bad game, it's just an enormous amount of wasted potential. They turned a Steak Dinner into a Mcdonalds Cheesburger.
Is anyone from Blizzard reading this? Paint in on the walls in the D3 cubicles and only let them out once they can recite it with closed eyes. I want a D3 with depth to last for years, they didnt deliver that at all. First bits of the expansion look like they wont deliver it with that reset either, what with level 70 stat inflation like TBC and two item screenshots look just like current items with more +gooder. DPS/tank stats and a random proc, woohoo.

Certain damage types for players and monster resists are a good idea imo, but keep it at a level where they are noticably harder to kill, not immune/impossible. *Maybe* specific immunities on plot monsters are ok (Andariel immune poison style), but triple immune random champs are detrimental.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,385
276
I'll second that, though it wouldn't be as bad in D3 with the ability to respec on the fly (and fuck the haters, I still think the D3 skill system is a huge improvement, being stuck with one build permanently on each character is straight up terrible game design).
That's MMO thinking though, you dont have years of investment in any action rpg character like in MMOs. Replayability and long term motivation in action rpgs IS making new characters and exploring new builds. Or rather, that was the game, and you asked to leave it out, and they complied. For many people that led to playing it 2 weeks instead of months or years. Making a witch doctor after my wizard was the matter of leveling to the easy cap and shuffling a pile "close enough to BiS" gear over to the other character. In D3 I probably played up a dozen sorcs alone to try different builds.
 

Dudebro_sl

shitlord
862
2
I cannot confim or deny this, but someone on another diablo forum was guessing that items become account bound after you use the mystic on them, hence why one of those legendaries was account bound and one was not. Shrug.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
1,131
3,819
Immunity did suck in D2. However, it really forced you to plan a character to be able to deal with it, whether through gear or skills. There were very few combos that could completely shut a character down if they didn't put all their eggs in one basket. I had a Frenzy barb that could clear the game 100% from the dark cave to Uber Tristram. It took quite a bit of work to get him to that point, but it was a fun challenge to overcome.

I haven't played D3 yet. I am thinking of picking it up for the PS3 and playing with a friend. It seems the console version cuts out a majority of the bullshit. It becomes a simpler game, but Diablo was a fairly simple game as well and that was still a fun time.

The only thing I am not looking forward to it seems is the poor writing. Diablo created an atmosphere and narrative that was palpable. Every level you went down felt more and more oppressive. D3 is essentially the Diablo equivalent to the "phantom menace" with better visuals, horrible writing and shitty character development. At least you didn't end up with a cartoonish demon side kick that was always bumping into things and talked like a plantation slave.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
15,230
11,376
Immunity did suck in D2. However, it really forced you to plan a character to be able to deal with it, whether through gear or skills. There were very few combos that could completely shut a character down if they didn't put all their eggs in one basket. I had a Frenzy barb that could clear the game 100% from the dark cave to Uber Tristram. It took quite a bit of work to get him to that point, but it was a fun challenge to overcome.

I haven't played D3 yet. I am thinking of picking it up for the PS3 and playing with a friend. It seems the console version cuts out a majority of the bullshit. It becomes a simpler game, but Diablo was a fairly simple game as well and that was still a fun time.

The only thing I am not looking forward to it seems is the poor writing. Diablo created an atmosphere and narrative that was palpable. Every level you went down felt more and more oppressive. D3 is essentially the Diablo equivalent to the "phantom menace" with better visuals, horrible writing and shitty character development. At least you didn't end up with a cartoonish demon side kick that was always bumping into things and talked like a plantation slave.
yeah. LoD was close to great. but did make a few missteps. Immunities were generally hated. but did create some good class interaction, and build dynamics.
Again, some of this was good, some of this was forced to fix the problem.

Runewords. Enigmas, and the like. Some classes were forced to use runewords and/or powerfully geared companions to kill off elements. I don't like this as a design. I feel this is a backdoor fix to the problem. And Runewords should have been kept under more control. Unique and powerful was one thing, but giving away skills of other classes hurt class interactions.

Lower resist necros. Perfect example of non-trinity based class interaction at its finest. More of this.

Synergies was another thing in LoD 1.12 that was... good and bad. good in that it made early tier skills viable end game, bad in that it forced you to really focus on that 1 tree to stay viable end game. Tri element sorcs all but vanished. Which just feeds into that immunity issue.
Path of Exiles method for making level 1 skill gems scale vs level 30 skill gem is clearly better. Of course it also has its own interaction for +element damage, and int/str/agil requirements for skills to create dynamics. And only resists, not immune.
 

Caliane

Avatar of War Slayer
15,230
11,376
That's MMO thinking though, you dont have years of investment in any action rpg character like in MMOs. Replayability and long term motivation in action rpgs IS making new characters and exploring new builds. Or rather, that was the game, and you asked to leave it out, and they complied. For many people that led to playing it 2 weeks instead of months or years. Making a witch doctor after my wizard was the matter of leveling to the easy cap and shuffling a pile "close enough to BiS" gear over to the other character. In D3 I probably played up a dozen sorcs alone to try different builds.
yeah. Respecs and all in one character is a giant mistake on d3's part. That and the level cap. they really did not understand arpg's. It would be making a roguelike and have a "game starts at 60", mp raid, no permadeath, etc.
 

Aaron

Goonsquad Officer
<Bronze Donator>
8,660
20,180
When I first heard about this expansion I thought, "OK, cool, it'll be out in 2-3 months time." But when I saw the ETA in mid 2014 I scratched my head. Will people still be interested then? Will there be no patches/content in the meantime? Well, at least if they fuck it up they won't be able to use the "we had to rush it" excuse.

But the thing that I really would like, as others have said here, is a non-AH mode. However, it's not as simple as others have said when they say "well don't use the AH then." since the fundamental flaw of the itemization and droprate is that it is stacked heavily in favour of trading stuff on the AH. Anyone who has played similar recent games (Torchlight 1 and 2, PoE) can see that these games are geared around use what you find, and do some loot runs to get better versions of it, whereas D3 is all about sell what you find and buy what you need.

Sure, that may be fun for some, but when I want to kill monsters and get loot I'm usually not in the AH trading game mood.
 

Neph_sl

shitlord
1,635
0
The one thing that people forget about ladder + no-AH is that there is no incentive for Blizzard to do it -- while it gives the hardcore players something else to do other than farming items, they won't be actively contributing to either AH, decreasing the supply of good items that could sell for BlizzBucks or the potential for someone to buy gold off the RMAH to buy the item they want off the GAH. Sure they could do it, but they'd be taking a loss of their bottom line.

If they do implement ladder seasons, it'll be fairly late in the game to bring people back, not while they have expansions planned around the corner.
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
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294
The one thing I really hoped they'd rip off PoE are races. The game is always online anyway, so you might as well use it to keep people interested.
 

Aaron

Goonsquad Officer
<Bronze Donator>
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Unfortunately Neph has a point. Which is why I'm also dubious about the itemization changes, as those might also negatively impact the AH. What can be said is that a game designed around some form of trading system, whether it's an AH, or microtransactions or whatever, will most likely not provide an optimal playing experience for those who do not want to use those functions. :S
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
Well they need to introduce a way for items to leave economy first, until then any sort of AH will be pants-on-head retarded since it's only a matter of time until you can get the best gear for next to nothing.