DOTA 2

Sutekh

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Well, if he wants an US team, there's really nothing right now, Quantic's new roster lasted like an hour ...

He seems to be better fit for some analytical casting more than anything else, he is easy to listen to and has all the knowledge required
Quantic was a UK team according to the hundreds of posts on Reddit about them and I've heard nothing about him changing his mind, especially since he almost instantly stopped playing with the aL players and hasn't played with them since, have a source for that?
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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Quantic was a UK team according to the hundreds of posts on Reddit about them and I've heard nothing about him changing his mind, especially since he almost instantly stopped playing with the aL players and hasn't played with them since, have a source for that?
Believe it was the logs between mania and him, he asked cause he had taken time to consider it seriously and figured he had time, but mania told him they didn't have a spot anymore. Was on IRC there's a bunch of people who are friends with pros in a channel I hang out in, there's also Ryze in there from time to time so we often get insider info, that said since my memory sucks it might have been another team, I just know he asked to join a team but he couldn't join cause they were full and that was about 2-3months ago.

Edit: EG looking good for #1. Jeyo still hasn't died in any game.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
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Biggest issue with DK is that he has no way to accelerate his farm except for dragon form ancient stacks at 11+ and those arn't reliable with ward blocking, or the other team just fucking with the ancients. Battlefury is never going to be built on him due to the nature of dragon form, its just a waste of a slot late game, but without the cleave his farm speed just doesn't accelerate with many other carries who have BF built into their balance. If AM or Void etc is even farm with a DK, the AM/Void are being slowed down heavily by the rest of DK's team or its just a matter of a few more minutes before he's behind. Still a good hero, I definitely see him as a 2 also, unless the strategy is to push hard as hell where he's a psuedo 1 and the goal is just to take the game by 25-30 minutes.
 

Sutekh

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Well that's why when you build DK it's nice to have someone like Mag or Ogre Magi, but really I don't think it's needed he farms very well with Breath Fire.
This game 2 between Mouz v EG is awesome, probably the best one so far only 17 mins in.


edit: changed my mind :p


According to Dota Academy DK is played as #1 67% of the time and Fear sitting at a 75% win rate with him. 9-3.
 

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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No doubt. Didnt mean to sound offended or anything just kind of frustrating when people say I play nothing but noobs when thats the only choice I have lol.

Yeah Shadow Fiend is squishy as fuck until laaaaate late and Im sure he gets out carried by other more robust heroes, I was just in awe because of the pure damage via auto attack. It was devastating and will probably never see that again.

As far as Tinker, I got owned by him a few games and had a buddy tear shit up with him so I can definitely see him being a problem. My DK comment was kind of accurate though IMO. I dont know how anyone can make a case for him early game besides reciting the fact that he has THE LONGEST STUN IN THE GAME AT THE START LOL etc.

Also, whats the deal with Enchantress? She is kind of fucking annoying once she gets fed and can faceroll pubs as well as anyone. Is she played competitively?
 

Penance

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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She trended hard in TI2. Fell off recently. Haven't seen her, maybe once or twice. She did well. Her early game ganks are probably the best out there. I mean SUPER early.
 

Taloo_sl

shitlord
742
2
Started playing again. Generally running three man pure made with some folks I ran into message me if I'm in channel and I'll get you in the next game if we have room. Also have a copy of don't starve if anyone wants to trade a compendium for it.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
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According to Dota Academy DK is played as #1 67% of the time and Fear sitting at a 75% win rate with him. 9-3.
He's still primarily a 4th pick which means he is chosen situationally after 10 bans have hit the board. Teams have shown more than half their lineup, and if he's the second pick in the 4th position the opposing team has 1 pick remaining to deal with whatever DK brings to the table in that game. His total winrate at dota accademy is 51%, which doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot. He's just not a hero that gets reliably picked in the first stages of the game because what the opposing team has for a carry matters, If you can get him in the 4th stage banning out the accelerating carries that will just outfarm him then no problem. He fits in plenty of strats built around his strengths, but the opposing team dictates if DK is picked or not as much as DK is picked. Unlike a first pick carry where the opposing team has to pick to counter the hero chosen. Eitherway no one said DK couldn't carry ever, or isn't a carry. He's only going to be played in the 1 or 2 role, because he's no jungle, no long lane, and no support. And to play him as a 2 it has to be a favorable matchup for him to get chosen for that position.
 

Intrinsic

Person of Whiteness
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Are the Learn DOTA series of videos by Tobi still relevant? Was just starting up the 1st one and thought it'd be a nice source to learn from.
 

Sutekh

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She trended hard in TI2. Fell off recently. Haven't seen her, maybe once or twice. She did well. Her early game ganks are probably the best out there. I mean SUPER early.
Shes one of my best played heroes. Basically will start at level one, get large creep, kill associated, run to next large camp, get large creep, gank lane with 2 large creep 1.5 mins in to game and get first blood, all down hill from there really.

and it actually was said that DK is not a hard carry, which is where this discussion spurred from.
 

Pyros

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My DK comment was kind of accurate though IMO. I dont know how anyone can make a case for him early game besides reciting the fact that he has THE LONGEST STUN IN THE GAME AT THE START LOL etc.
First let's be clear on what early game is. It's not the first 5 mins only. Early is 0-15mins, midgame is 15-30, after that it's late and there's even later than that which doesn't really have a name but that's like 1hour+ games with multiple heroes at 25 and fully slotted.

In the 0-15mins, DK is extremely strong. He's actually kinda meh from 0 to 6-8mins, which is the time it takes to get to 6, after which he's probably one of the strongest hero for a little time, at least in the current meta. The current meta, for the most part, involves a static laning phase for 8-12mins, and then 3-5man pushes, with an objective of pushing all tier1 towers by 17-20 and all tier 2 by 25, at least for the leading team, while securing rosh when possible around 15-20mins. Some strategies involve roaming and ganking more in the very early phase, but for the most part it consists of a passive or agressive trilanes and 2 solos and while some games get crazy in the first 10mins, most of them actually tend to be pretty light on action, however after that time, there isn't a "sit back and farm until 20" as much as there used to be. Still happens, just talking generalities here.

DK fits actually that timing perfectly. He's a hero that can sit back and farm the first few levels because his innate decent str, high armor, high regen and strong disable generally prevents agression toward him. He can lane in a trilane efficiently due to his strong aoe nuke and stun, but he can also solo mid without much of an issue and while he won't be a threat to the enemy mid, most mids won't be a threat to him either. He farms efficiently via his high damage aoe nuke that he can sustain easily with a bottle or a soul ring if not mid. Once he hits 6, he's now extremely dangerous, he moves faster than most heroes(assuming same level of boots), can stun at a fairly long range and does high autoattack damage. More importantly, once the pushing starts, and the pushing always starts in the current meta, he can push lanes quickly and take towers easily. Leave him alone in a lane and he'll take the tower as fast as a syllabear at that point, which is no small feat. Group up and he can stand in the front, soaking up pokes and tower shots while applying constant pressure to the building and threatening people of getting stunned and most likely killed. He requires you to commit to initiate on him and drop a large amount of nukes to drop him. Otherwise you just look at him slowing killing your tower, it's not rhasta wards or edict but one attack every 5secs will take it down over time easily while offering very little chances to counter that other than sacrificing the tower and splitpushing.

After early game and into midgame, this power fades off as I explained. His nuke doesn't scale obviously, his damage is extremely item dependant, he now needs to farm up to rival other heroes in teamfights, but farmed up he's still a threat. He also absolutely needs lvl 16, which makes him a bit of a liability when he's not as relevant but before he's reached that.

His early game is strong. It is very hard to stop a push led by a DK, so you lose your early towers, which gives you a large deficit of gold, which leads to being behind in midgame, which leads to you losing if you can't stabilize. That's why he's still a very valid pick in the current meta.

As for Fear, a lot of his DK games are probably from the Knight strat time. Omniknight, CK, DK, Chen +1(often Leshrac). Involved 5man dota at 15mins, using the massive healing and tanking power of CK and DK to break through. You could say it was #1 because it was Fear playing him but at the same time most of these games ended at 25mins and involved very little farming and a lot of pushing. I haven't checked though so maybe there's also pure #1 DK play.
 

Penance

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I would also agree that DK is much stronger than Gyro early game. Sure gyro can bait some good 1v1s, but positioning is more important. DK can just man mode his way in and has a really strong aoe nuke and easily one of the top 3 reliable stuns in the game. His poison dragon is like pushing with a couple extra seige minions. Just like gyro he can farm the ancients at a certain level and with HotD he doesn't even have to worry about supports stacking it for him. DK is one of my stronger heroes. I usually build drums and HotD on him and by 15 minutes the initiation is just fearful. Might skip one or the other for BKB if it warrants it.
 

Jozu

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
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Perhaps im just terrible lol.

I kind of suck at last hitting so maybe thats my problem. I just dont do well with guys who NEED gold/items to be relevant. Or levels in this case.

Its just kind of lame playing the same fucking heroes over and over. Even single draft is like a troll draft. Riki viper etc every game. I just need to get better at countering certain shit and I will be fine. There is obviously a reason these scrub heroes dont do dick at the highest levels.
 

Burren

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Perhaps im just terrible lol.

I kind of suck at last hitting so maybe thats my problem. I just dont do well with guys who NEED gold/items to be relevant. Or levels in this case.

Its just kind of lame playing the same fucking heroes over and over. Even single draft is like a troll draft. Riki viper etc every game. I just need to get better at countering certain shit and I will be fine. There is obviously a reason these scrub heroes dont do dick at the highest levels.
Load up a game against "unfair" bots and practice last hits for a while. Keep practicing until you feel you're consistent.
 

Sutekh

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Just hope to god you don't get Sniper bot in your lane, because you will never get a last hit. I can consistently get 700 GPM on carries, but when against or teamed with Sniper bot. No fucking way I'm getting last hits.
 
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Its just kind of lame playing the same fucking heroes over and over. Even single draft is like a troll draft. Riki viper etc every game. I just need to get better at countering certain shit and I will be fine. There is obviously a reason these scrub heroes dont do dick at the highest levels.
Fire up all random from time to time. You'll end up playing lots of heroes you would never have picked before and team comp should be just as wonky from one side to the other. Just be prepared to have to pick up a courier as a carry because no one else ever will, but at least you get some extra free gold from randoming.
 

Dandai

<WoW Guild Officer>
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What is it about DotA that makes me irrationally angry at complete strangers? I've been muted since last Sunday and lost so many games because I can't communicate with my own team outside of pings and the chat wheel.
 

Sutekh

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You have anger issues? When you start realizing that 99% of the time when you die, it was your fault and try to figure out what you did wrong you stop getting angry.
 

Chysamere

FF14 Free Company Master
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No doubt. Didnt mean to sound offended or anything just kind of frustrating when people say I play nothing but noobs when thats the only choice I have lol.

Yeah Shadow Fiend is squishy as fuck until laaaaate late and Im sure he gets out carried by other more robust heroes, I was just in awe because of the pure damage via auto attack. It was devastating and will probably never see that again.

As far as Tinker, I got owned by him a few games and had a buddy tear shit up with him so I can definitely see him being a problem. My DK comment was kind of accurate though IMO. I dont know how anyone can make a case for him early game besides reciting the fact that he has THE LONGEST STUN IN THE GAME AT THE START LOL etc.

Also, whats the deal with Enchantress? She is kind of fucking annoying once she gets fed and can faceroll pubs as well as anyone. Is she played competitively?
Phantom Assassin with the same level of farm would have one shot anyone on the enemy team in that game with a crit. Talking 2500+.

Enchantress and Chen have sort of fallen out of favour. As mentioned above, the current meta is a static laning stage for 6-8 minutes and those two heroes excel at early pushes and ganks. Na'vi still bust them out occasionally, Puppey plays a mean Chen.