DOTA 2

Nite1

<WoW Guild Officer>
786
65
If at all possible can I join in w you draegan if you guys get together to learn it? Graywolf in game. Dota2wiki has a decent run down on the heroes if your looking for something to read
 

Zaphid

Trakanon Raider
5,862
294
The one thing I got confused with is the legacy RTS (is it really legacy?) stuff where you can select other minions and shit. That threw me off until I realized what was up.
No, just think of it as RTS, LoL gutted all of these elements and removed a lot of depth. Gives more ways to show skill, you can micro your minions on the other side of the map to pull/stack for example, but until you get a bit more familiar with the mechanics, you probably shouldn't concern yourself with it. The one thing I hate about Dota 2 is how the unit selection works, you need to box over half of the unit for it to count which is really annoying if you ever played any other RTS.
 

Dandain

Trakanon Raider
2,092
917
I played some Dota2 last night, just 1 full game and a few 5 minutes start and quits against bots. It feels.. different compared to LOL. I don't know what it is, it's just doesn't feel right? The fucking tooltips for abilities are long as fuck with tons of stats.
I would bet money that the thing that you feel that "isn't right" is the turnrate that exists in dota but not in league. Your hero has a rotational speed, and must face a direction before he begins to walk, additionally spells that have facing requirements must have the hero rotate to that angle as well. Your initial reaction is to say its not responsive, in league your character can change direction animate skills behind you instantly without a facing change etc.

It can feel a little like you're playing in sticky tar. Its a key feature of dota balance though, and as your hero levels or buys certain items that turn rate gets quicker with stat gain until its almost a non issue lategame. It does prevent people from firing many skills out of their ass, you have to commit to turning around or running! You will get used to it.
 

Penance

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
5,179
5,083
Yea what Dan said. That was the biggest thing that threw me off. But I recently went back to HoN, and hated that there was no rotational speed. I guarantee you get used to it.

It will be very disorienting at first, but at least let me give you some good heroes to start off with.

Mid: Dragon Knight, Zeus (very easy, think Karthus ult on crack), Batrider, Queen of Pain
Support: Dazzle, Vengeful Spirit, Lion, Shadow Shaman, Lich
Carry: Anti Mage, Lifestealer, Ursa

Those are a small, but simple AND very effective list of pub stomping heroes for each role in a pub.

The thing I did to acquaint myself with the heroes, is when I first started, I did A-Z mixing in co-op games. Just use the scrolling hero select bar, it makes it super simple
tongue.png
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
I just watched Purge play Broodmother. That ability set is crazy interesting. Kind of a good reason to promote Dota2 over LoL.
 

Weaponsfree_sl

shitlord
342
1
-Monkey King Bar (MKB) provides damage and a mini stun and provides its user with 100% chance to hit through evasion (this includes shooting up hill)
False. MKB does not prevent miss chance up hills.

I've never heard "Creep blocking" called "Creep walking." The safelane almost never creep blocks. The long lane can block if it wants. Mid does minimal blocking. The reason being, you don't necessarily want the creep at your tower so quickly, making your level 1 damage last hitting difficult, and pushing the lane out early. You want the creep either just outside tower range, or well within tower range after a creep pull where no allied creep will come back out to push the lane.

A better way to explain is with positions. There are 5 positions in dota:

Position 1: Hard Carry
Position 2: Mid
Position 3: Offlane
Position 4: Roaming Support/Jungler
Position 5: Babysitter

Even in pubs with a 2-1-2 setup, you want to fill these positions. This is why it is fucking infuriating when you have a QoP, a Weaver, and a FV (QoP as position 2, Weaver as Position 3, and FV as position 1) and someone picks Clinkz. Not every hero can fill every position. Positions 1 and 5 will always lane together, and Position 5 can roam with 4 any time there is a break. Position 4 is also in charge of pulling the lane (if in the jungle, because in a 2-1-2 position 4 will be hardlaning with position 3) and harassing the enemy mid when the opportunity presents itself.

And now a brief note about trilanes and why they work and why they don't:

In a typical 2-1-2 setup vs. a 2-1-2 setup, you stand an even chance of winning any of those lanes. You might win 1 of them, you might win 2, you might win none. The trilane trades the CHANCE that you will win 2 given lanes for the GUARANTEE (when executed properly) that you win 1. Trilanes are very effective when the two supports (on Positions 4 and 5) know what they are doing and the Position 1 can last hit with 90% efficiency (4 CS a minute minimum). If you look at your creep kills at 30 minutes and you only have 90 in a trilane, you've shot your team in the foot by dedicating a lot of resources for piss poor farm.

The reason trilanes don't wory often in pubs is because 1) inefficiency in playstyle of the pilot of Position 1, 2) inability of either or both of Positions 4 and 5 to understand they need to be hidden and out of the lane (pulling, zoning the enemy heroes, warding, rune-whoring, creep blocking, stacking, and ganking) as much as possible but close enough to save/harass/kill the enemy offlaner(s), 3) poor picking/drafting into heroes that do not belong in a trilane or do not synergize well, and finally 4) positions 4 and 5 think they need farm to function.

2-1-2 will teach a lot of good fundamentals and it's a good idea to stick to this idea unless you are a 4 or 5 stack. The reason why you should never try this as a 3 stack is because it means that you are assigning some guy you don't know to hardlane (or safelane in the case of the much more exciting offensive trilane) against a minimum of 2 people. You don't know that guy. Assume he does not know how to solo offlane. This is also good advice against instalocking some jungling hero. You don't know that the benefit of you jungling (and in pubs, it's minimal) will outweigh someone being down an ally in his lane.

Anyway--

no, MKB does not prevent misses uphill.

For fun, here is an abbreviated list of great heroes and for what positions:

Position 1: Faceless Void, Anti-mage, Specter
Position 2: QoP, Puck, Shadowfiend (nyx in Pubs plays position 2)
Position 3: Weaver, Lone Druid, Nature's Prophet (if you're good with treants), Bounty Hunter, Windrunner
Position 4: Literally any support with a disable. Lina, Shadow Demon, Leshrac, Rubick, Veno etc. Nyx in pro games is played as a position 4 typically, and somewhat rarely as position 1.
Position 5: A support that also needs a good disable or a good skillset. Lion, Ancient Apparition, Rubick, SD, etc.

A lot of softer carries can be played as position 1. Juggernaut, Naga, etc. when your team can compliment their play. Some heroes have some flexibility. 4 and 5 positions have a lot of overlap. AA can be played mid or position 4 or 5 (more likely 5). QoP can offlane, Clinkz can too. You'll also note that SF is a carry but is most often played position 2--and a pick like this means there is less pressure on position 1 to farm as hard or be as hard of a carry (Kunkka or tiny are picked as position 1s if the mid is a stronger DPS presence, or if the offlaner is LD or Weaver).
 

Lunis

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,259
1,505
2 Force Staff's + Eth blade + Kuroky stealing Root saved Hvost there and won the game.
 

Prime_sl

shitlord
71
0
Definitely. I like Ayesee, but his casts lately have been horrible. He has no map awareness at all, and he doesn't have a good grasp on strategy. Obviously Navi supports are getting Eth blades to protect Gyro for when they go on him. He didn't even mention that. His casts yesterday (I understand he was tired or whatever) were even worse. He would be talking about some random thing while a huge battle is going on. Totally frustrating. I guess that's why I usually just buy the tickets.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,074
2,268
I just watched Purge play Broodmother. That ability set is crazy interesting. Kind of a good reason to promote Dota2 over LoL.
Well that's the thing, while lol had a few interesting heroes in concept(Orianna for example I liked) and some fun to play because of mechanics(Ezreal or Akali), in general dota can make heroes that are way way different from others.

You have heroes that control multiple units like Chen(can dominate jungle creeps), Enchantress(can also control jungle creeps but only temporarily), Broodmother(makes spiderlings if her nuke kills a target, no number limit but they have a duration), Enigma(convert on creep into 3 eidolons, after 6 attacks each eidolons splits into 2 but only happen once), Lone Druid/Syllabear who has a bear as a permanent unit that can also be equipped like a hero so you end up with 12slots worth of items or one of the most fun and hard to play hero, Meepo, who gets copies of himself each with their own cooldowns on their abilities and the ability to teleport to other meepos on very low cd but killing one meepo kills all the meepos. List is not exhaustive, for example a hero that's not ported yet in dota2 that was added recently in dota1 can make a single copy of himself, however this copy also gets a copy of the inventory, so you can double whatever usable item you have, it's pretty cool.

You have heroes that have variable amounts of abilities, like Shadowfiend who has 3 copies of the same spells, one for each range, on separate cooldowns, so he ends up having 6skills, or the obvious one, Invoker, who has to make combos with his orbs to create a spell which leads to him having a potential of 14 abilities each on their own unique cooldown, or Rubick whose ultimate simply lets him use the last spell that was used by the enemy you steal it from.

And then on top of all these heroes concepts, you have very strong items that have unique effects too, such as blink(which is flash in lol, however it is fairly different in use here), force staff which pushes a unit in the direction they're facing, ally or enemy(can push enemy into your team or your teammates away or into the enemy team), Scythe of Vise which polymorphs the target for 4secs so it can't use skills or spells or Refresher which instantly resets all your other cooldowns items included(few exceptions though).

The main issue is it's a LOT harder to learn everything than in lol. I played lol for a long time so I know the game decently enough and the fact is a lot of heroes were actually fairly easy to understand and learn to play against, because a lot of them have similar or simple skills. Item choice is even easier as most of the items are passive effects so you just get stats that work well for your champion and these same items will work well for basically every hero of the same type. So even nowadays with a hundred of champion, it's not that daunting plus your early games will be mostly against and with the current free champions pool when you start, because people don't have other champions yet, so you can learn week by week with sometimes someone picking something weird, but in dota since there's not that limit, it's not uncommon for your first 10games to have like 40different heroes if not more, unless you play against bots(limited pool of bot heroes).

As for a good way to start I don't know, Purge might have good articles somewhere too or just watching his videos might be good enough. On the dota2 wiki there was also a list of the heroes ordered by role(support carry etc) and by accessability for a new player(so invoker meepo would be last while lich would be first).
 

bayr_sl

shitlord
715
0
Tobi could go on hate fueled rants about American Inventors until he was blue in the face and it would still be less offensive than listening to Ayesee pretend he knows what he's talking about.