Draegan sold the site to MMORPG.com

hodj

hodj

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Not to mention, soon enough googling "Rerolled.org" is going to come up with "Rererolled.org" as well anyway.

People who literally cannot find their way over there are probably too dumb to worry about.
 
Daezuel

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Celestein_sl said:
It's true that moving a community is risky, but what's even worse is splintering a community.

I'd say the damage is already done, trust has been thrown away; there's no reason to stay.

This could of all been avoided with being upfront with the community, and now that we risk splintering between staying and going, I think the logical thing to do at this point is "go", even if you want to stay, because otherwise you're contributing more to the problem you're trying to avoid by staying.

In a game theory sense, we have more to risk by staying than going at this point. We know our current situation is bad, and we can never trust our staff again. The other situation is an unknown, it can be bad, it can be good, but even the worst possible outcome is basically where we're already at in terms of long term risk(no-notice shut-downs, eventual censorship, etc); therefore it's logical to go and gamble that any situation has some chance of being better than staying.
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Pretty much this. Draegan fucked us and fucked mmorpg.com by being a shady little fuck. We're far better off moving to the devil we do know than staying with the one we don't. We can actually ask for and possibly receive forum updates, do you even know who to talk to about that around here anymore?
 
AngryGerbil

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Celestein_sl said:
It's true that moving a community is risky, but what's even worse is splintering a community.

I'd say the damage is already done, trust has been thrown away; there's no reason to stay.

This could of all been avoided with being upfront with the community, and now that we risk splintering between staying and going, I think the logical thing to do at this point is "go", even if you want to stay, because otherwise you're contributing more to the problem you're trying to avoid by staying.

In a game theory sense, we have more to risk by staying than going at this point. We know our current situation is bad, and we can never trust our staff again. The other situation is an unknown, it can be bad, it can be good, but even the worst possible outcome is basically where we're already at in terms of long term risk(no-notice shut-downs, eventual censorship, etc); therefore it's logical to go and gamble that any situation has some chance of being better than staying.
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I'm trying to move to this thread so at the risk of repeating myself from the other one, I think Tuco still has the initiative here and there is no reason to give it up. a_skeleton_03's site is an excellent idea. There is nothing wrong with prepping the life boats. But there is also no reason to abandon ship until the new owner has begun to steer it into the icebergs of SJW Clickbait-ism. Once we can safely say that we have hit the iceberg, then we can leave thanks to the efforts of a_skeleton_03, Hodge, and joz123, we have a Plan B. But there is no pressing need to scuttle the ship wholesale just yet. Once the word police, adbots, and malware invade, we go.

IMO.
 
Tuco

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Celestein_sl said:
It's true that moving a community is risky, but what's even worse is splintering a community.

I'd say the damage is already done, trust has been thrown away; there's no reason to stay.

This could of all been avoided with being upfront with the community, and now that we risk splintering between staying and going, I think the logical thing to do at this point is "go", even if you want to stay, because otherwise you're contributing more to the problem you're trying to avoid by staying.

In a game theory sense, we have more to risk by staying than going at this point. We know our current situation is bad, and we can never trust our staff again. The other situation is an unknown, it can be bad, it can be good, but even the worst possible outcome is basically where we're already at in terms of long term risk(no-notice shut-downs, eventual censorship, etc); therefore it's logical to go and gamble that any situation has some chance of being better than staying.
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Daezuel_sl said:
Pretty much this. Draegan fucked us and fucked mmorpg.com by being a shady little fuck. We're far better off moving to the devil we do know than staying with the one we don't. We can actually ask for and possibly receive forum updates, do you even know who to talk to about that around here anymore?
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My opinion is that without rule changes or bad server performance a move will cause a splinter. If we let the new owners go against their word first, we have enough cassus belli to switch more cleanly.

A lot of vocal people here are ready to switch, but many aren't without seeing any evidence of this becoming a bad home.
 
Chukzombi

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X X E X X_sl said:
Yep, Ultima was the good old days.
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i was gonna go the Ultima route, but i was a big Sierra On-Line fan from back in the early 90s and i went from the Sierra games to INN (Imagination Network) and then got into The Realm(Sierra) beta in 95 and just stuck around til EQ went live. should have gone with Ultima.
 
Ravishing

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Sorry for starting that other thread!

Here's my post for those that didn't see:

Too many damn posts about the site move in too many places, I'm happy to start a new one.

My position, as a never-mod and as a not very highly regarded member of this community, but someone who's been here since noows, is to stick it out here unless new owners fuck it up. I reserved a name at the other place but don't desire to use it unless this community dies or goes to shit.

a_skeleton_03 might have good intentions but I'm not confident he knows what it takes to keep a robust online community running. It's time, money and commitment. I have run small guild message boards in the past and would never choose to take on a project like this. I think if MMORPG leaves us alone then it's the best case scenario. If this place loads a 404 like fohguild then I guess we'll have no choice but to go elsewhere.

I think the situation is shady as shit but can't fault the man for wanting to make a buck. Running a website is a thankless job and the ad revenue likely didn't pay for the frustration. I am not confident it could have been sold to a community member and been run as well. There's no guarantee the buyer(s) would be experienced with the task of hosting.

Draegen criticizes me every chance he gets and I use to think he was a friend, but he's been trolling the shit out of myself and others in the politics thread, so I am not defending him, I'm just trying to be realistic about the whole situation.

Moving a community is risky and you usually lose quite a bit in the process. It would serve us best to stick here if possible.
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hodj

hodj

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Tuco_sl said:
My opinion is that without rule changes or bad server performance a move will cause a splinter. If we let the new owners go against their word first, we have enough cassus belli to switch more cleanly.

A lot of vocal people here are ready to switch, but many aren't without seeing any evidence of this becoming a bad home.
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"We should wait until the new owners fuck us in the ass, at which point it would be too late to get the word out to everyone, before we keep the community that has been around for 15 years together and under the leadership of an internal member"

This is a terrible argument and you should feel bad for making it.

You know full well that we could wake up one day with this forum rolled into MMORPG.com forums, and every attempt to drive an exodus met with banning and censorship, and there would be jack and fucking squat we could do about it.
 
Nester

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What word? The word they gave you behind closed doors? Will You post it? Who is your mmorpg.com contact?
 
Daezuel

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AngryGerbil_sl said:
I'm trying to move to this thread so at the risk of repeating myself from the other one, I think Tuco still has the initiative here and there is no reason to give it up. a_skeleton_03's site is an excellent idea. There is nothing wrong with prepping the life boats. But there is also no reason to abandon ship until the new owner has begun to steer it into the icebergs of SJW Clickbait-ism. Once we can safely say that we have hit the iceberg, then we can leave because thanks to the efforts of a_skeleton_03, Hodge, and joz123, we have a Plan B. But there is no pressing need to scuttle the ship wholesale just yet. Once the word police, adbots, and malware invade, we go.

IMO.
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Sadly I think the point is it's already too late. The fragmenting has begun. The iceberg was Draegan selling this site like he owned this community and keeping everyone in the dark about it. Why should we sit here and wait for our new overlords to take notice of us?

If they actually wanted this shit to succeed whomever is in charge needs to get their ass in here and explain why we should stay. What kind of support can we look for? Will they fix the nagging forum issues that Draegan never would or could? Who would we even ask?

So instead of entrusting our community to someone that has been a part of it and was doing the work to help us move away from FOH and morenetz in the past (and coincidentally I think came up with the name rerolled before Draegan ran off and registered it), we're supposed to sit here and hope that the man behind the curtain has nothing but the best intentions for us?

Should we reward these dickheads for trying to pull a fast one on us all in the slim hopes they won't ever decide to put their own design on the site?
 
Daezuel

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Tuco_sl said:
My opinion is that without rule changes or bad server performance a move will cause a splinter. If we let the new owners go against their word first, we have enough cassus belli to switch more cleanly.

A lot of vocal people here are ready to switch, but many aren't without seeing any evidence of this becoming a bad home.
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Like the splinters the last 2 moves made? It's too late, the great splintering of 2016 has begun. Sure, keep the good fight alive and try to keep as many here as you possibly can thus ensuring there actually IS a splinter.

/boggle
 
hodj

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Nester_sl said:
What word? The word they gave you behind closed doors? Will You post it? Who is your mmorpg.com contact?
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These are all good questions that should have been answered already.

The fact that they've owned this site for a month and this is the first we're hearing of it today?

That's some serious shenanigans.

Why wouldn't they have announced when the deal was closed?

Why were they trying to keep it all under wraps?

Secrecy right from the start but we should just "have faith".

No thanks.
 
Xexx

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Astr0Chuk_sl said:
i was gonna go the Ultima route, but i was a big Sierra On-Line fan from back in the early 90s and i went from the Sierra games to INN (Imagination Network) and then got into The Realm(Sierra) beta in 95 and just stuck around til EQ went live. should have gone with Ultima.
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Ultima was my first online experience beyond playing WC on lan with some friends. It was easily still some of the best PVP times ive ever had and the community was pretty f'n awesome. I was still too new to things when the eq beta jump started and everyone was farming rubi. Guild wars in early EQ was pretty fun but nothing like massive shenanigans on Abyss.
 
Gilgamel

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Man how hard is it to maintain a fucking community message board? This drama is retarded. Not trying to sound ungrateful but fuck dude, this community is old as fuck with like 400 committed assholes who've been at it closing in on 20 years.
 
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Celestein_sl said:
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but I would still say it's an irrational position. The exodus already started, so it's no longer a hypothetical; people in the "stay" camp as it were, are doing more harm than good by choosing to stay, to their own desire for a robust community because the "go" camp has a proper and valid casus belli for this event.

As I said, we're in a situation right now where we will never truly trust our new owners, even if they're faultless, because of the behavior of the previous owner. If there is no trust, there is no relationship, so what sense does it make to force it?

"Wait and see" in this case is a losing move, as I said, if we applied proper game theory to this, staying is the worse move of the two and results in the worst outcomes. Especially when you consider we've done it several times now, so the social risk of negative outcome is virtually gone, we know we can do this, and successfully have several times.

I'm not "pro" going as much as it is that I can't make a valid argument for staying.
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If Hodj leaves can we all just stay here and not let him come back?
 
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I'll wait and see. Was on fohguild since year 2 or 3 of EQ- maybe within the first year of EQ I forget . Came here when rerolled made.
 
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