Elder Scrolls - Legends (Card Game)

Dragonaut

Molten Core Raider
41
47
everything I've read about the game says it's categorically better than Hearthstone

It sounds like you read that from biased people. There's no way the game is categorically better. It does some things differently which may appeal to some, and there's always your segment of anti-Blizzard people who will insist that anything is better, but ESL is not a superior game in any meaningful way. For one thing, it's so new that it's two years of card additions behind HS, making it almost objectively inferior in that regard (even though that's not a design difference) because you just haven't got very much content. That'll take quite some time to catch up to. Another thing is that they copy so severely from HS that many aspects of the game can't be better simply because they're identical.

After my initial impression, I tried the game for a few more days and my verdict didn't really change. The developers have been so afraid of designing complex spells and unique mechanics that they've pigeonholed gameplay into this template of curving out with minions, playing some fairly basic removal, and then hoping you draw better. There are faster or slower variations of this theme, but I simply never saw a deck that was actually different. If I want to play something like HS's miracle rogue or freeze mage, the cards simply do not exist. In that regard, I think the cardpool is more primitive even than HS's classic set. This, coupled with the general weakness of spells, basically sentences this game to a life of almost entirely minion-based gameplay.

I've looked through all the popular decks and studied the entire cardpool, and there's nothing besides that. The entire game is designed around playing minions on curve, either small or big ones, and then using a bit of removal to attempt to maintain board control. I couldn't see the building blocks for any other kind of deck. You can be more aggressive or more defensive, you can play little removal or a lot, you can try to include card draw (for which the options are pathetic and wildly unbalanced) and then that's about it. When it costs eight mana to clear one lane, or four mana to deal four damage to a target, you're forced to rely mostly on a steady stream of minions.

RNG-wise, it's difficult to quantify whether or not ESL's Prophecy mechanic (together with the numerous cards that have random effects) adds up to as much RNG as HS has. There's plenty of it, though, and it's presented in a really irritating way that not only rubs it in your face but also directly fucks with gameplay by punishing the pursuit of the game's only realistic win condition: attacking face. There's some merit to the idea of discouraging mindless aggression, but that discouragement should not come in the form of gambling. You either attack anyway and just hope your opponent doesn't get lucky, or you flood the board to set up a one-turn kill that's nearly impossible to stop because the board clears in this game are absolutely pathetic.

So my conclusion is that it's a game which is too similar to HS to really offer a new experience, makes the same mistakes of forcing RNG into the game and designing toward a samey meta of curveplay and board control, and is lagging behind HS by two years of card additions which means it'll be a long, long time before ESL is actually even able to realistically compete due to the limited cardpool. The game is every bit as expensive and grindy, because while it's a bit more generous with the leveling rewards and such, prices are otherwise the same while featuring 50-card decks with up to three of even legendary cards, and there are hardly any neutral cards so each deck basically needs to be crafted fully from scratch as opposed to HS where you often have the neutrals already.
 

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
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Oh, I'm sure they were biased, hence why I was posting there ;)

On-curve minion play sounds boring, probably will get boring, but the alternatives you list are worse. Freeze mage is one of the examples of what Hearthstone did quite wrong. It's the pinnacle of uninteractive and quite frustrating to play against. Either you're a warrior and armor up out of their burst range or....wish they bring loatheb back? Miracle rogue is a bit better, but Loatheb was still the best counter. The deck itself is only countered by its own inconsistency, not by any decisions the opponent makes.

I understand why people like to play control decks, it's fulfilling to play a game full of decisions and be rewarded with a win for calling them correctly. Hearthstone does not give opponents nearly enough tech decisions to play against control. Your only option is to speed up and push them out of the meta collectively.

I was kinda hoping to find that in ESL. More decisions both in deck building and gameplay. But from the sounds of your review, maybe not.
 

Dragonaut

Molten Core Raider
41
47
On-curve minion play sounds boring, probably will get boring, but the alternatives you list are worse. Freeze mage is one of the examples of what Hearthstone did quite wrong. It's the pinnacle of uninteractive and quite frustrating to play against. Either you're a warrior and armor up out of their burst range or....wish they bring loatheb back? Miracle rogue is a bit better, but Loatheb was still the best counter. The deck itself is only countered by its own inconsistency, not by any decisions the opponent makes.

They were just examples of decks that rely on something other than mindlessly playing minions on curve every turn. I wasn't saying I want exactly freeze mage in ESL. However, I also disagree with your assessment of that deck as it's one of the most unique and original decks, with vast amounts of strategy and decisionmaking for both players. There's a lot more depth to HS gameplay than you seem to acknowledge, and I don't think many players worth listening to will agree with you that freeze mage is "one of the things Hearthstone did wrong." In any case, it's the kind of thing ESL lacks: a deck that has a strategy different from simply maintaining the strongest board throughout the game.
 

gogusrl

Molten Core Raider
1,359
102
Played it for a few days, I pretty much agree with Dragonaut. I'll check it out again in 6-12 months.

Might and Magic : Duel of Champions remains the best card game I've tried (but I haven't tried MTG). It was the only game that made me lose with a giant fucking smile on my face when I figured out what the guy was doing. To bad Ubisoft fucked it up.
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
Played it for a few days, I pretty much agree with Dragonaut. I'll check it out again in 6-12 months.

Might and Magic : Duel of Champions remains the best card game I've tried (but I haven't tried MTG). It was the only game that made me lose with a giant fucking smile on my face when I figured out what the guy was doing. To bad Ubisoft fucked it up.

DoC was fucking awesome, such a great game. With an absolutely horrible business cash-grabby business model. Fuck Ubisoft.
 

gLobal

Trakanon Raider
116
144
So this just came out on Steam on June 1st. I'm a big CCG whore, so I had to try it. I'm sad to see the franchise getting sold out on all fronts though.

It's been a while since this thread was created, but the game doesn't appear to have changed much from what was shown earlier. There is an expansion for the Dark Brotherhood and some Madhouse promotional running. The cards from the newer set seem much stronger than the Core set which is a major bummer, and doesn't bode well for future balance.

Thoughts:

Cardpool seems large to be early in the games life.
Story mode is actually pretty interesting and well done. I wish the heroic chapters gave premium versions of the cards, or snazzier titles.
Seems easy to progress by just playing, although I did buy the expansion because I wanted to save gold.
Spells are weak, making gameplay all about early board control. Maybe we'll get stronger spells in the future.
Drawing cards from the rune system. It makes attacking more strategic, but the RNG from prophecy cards doesn't sit well with me. (I'd prefer it reduce the cost of the card drawn, or something more consistent entirely.)
Too much ripped off from Hearthstone, although I think they did take some of the best parts. It's pretty blatant and not cool.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
It's been a while since this thread was created, but the game doesn't appear to have changed much from what was shown earlier. There is an expansion for the Dark Brotherhood and some Madhouse promotional running. The cards from the newer set seem much stronger than the Core set which is a major bummer, and doesn't bode well for future balance.

With a few exceptions (mostly Presentarius Ocularum or whatever they're called - 3 CC yellow dudes that steal keywords, 3 CC lethal spider w/ a stun tied on) the new set isn't an increase in power over existing stuff - they're just overrepresented in use because of their newness. Heck, for my current goto build - the current most powerful cards that DB added to it are the Ocularum mentioned above and Wanted Man (the 1/1 for 1 with a 0 CC 0/2 defender added to your hand). The rest of DB I basically ignore.

Cardpool seems large to be early in the games life.
And about to make a quantum leap in size very soon. Full Expansion hits end of June. The Elder Scrolls: Legends
150 cards, I believe original set w/o promos/DB was 150 as well. So should nearly double the scope of the card pool.

Spells are weak, making gameplay all about early board control. Maybe we'll get stronger spells in the future.

Depends on what you mean by "weak" - they're "weak" like MTG spells are "weak" compared to MTG spells of old that could basically win the game with a few spells comboed together. But in regards to any modern CCG, the spells have as much if not more impact to them off of a single casting. Sure, most of what you're going to see are the 1-3 CC spells that are all heavily board dependent or unexciting (get 2 fish tokens that grow each turn! Hurrah!) - but high end gets plenty splashy.

But almost no CCGs ignore their creature aspect anymore, as a layer to promote more creature interaction like nearly every CCG does these days, spells are quite impactful IMO.

If you're looking to play something more control based, such can absolutely be done in the framework of ESL - but it's more support based - and as a result plays more like PW based control in MTG.
 

Elidroth

Trakanon Raider
539
1,245
I played it through the story mode, and felt no compelling reason to give them money. I liked what I saw but just not excited to keep playing.
 

MrHolland420

KRA! KRA!
<Silver Donator>
896
1,120
Anybody still playing this? Got an email from Bethesda about QuakeCon 2018 and had a little segment this game in it. Wanted to check it out but wasn't sure if I was wasting my time. Guess I will check out the story mode to see how I like it. I have played Gwent, Hearthstone, Eternal, and of course MTG since middle school, MTG is still my favorite but all of them have something unique about them.