EQ Never

Grim1_sl said:

GW2 deleveling system could advantage of their world and give players options. But they threw it out and decided to go the lobby route. It's not impossible to do, it just requires devs to stop copying the existing lobby endgame.

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The content and loot is there in GW2 in the lower zones. It's just easier to stay in one spot and get it. You can hate it all you want, but the vast majority of gamers like it this way. It's those gamers that pay the bills.

Convo_sl said:

I quit WoW when MC was the only raid zone. I am talking about large open world dungeons...People feel they are a waste of Dev time because players will eventually level past them. That is one way to keep them being visited

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Mentoring. Should you feel a hankering to go slumming you scale down your level to whatever content you want. Rift and EQ2 already do this. In Rift's case, the XP you get is also scaled. You can kill the same set of boars all the way to max level just like South Park.

Kreugen_sl said:

How many dev hours do you think are spent on the cutscene that pops up the first time you load a game, and then never see again? How many hours do you think they spend on the well crafted lobby on MAP01 in some_fps that you blow through in half a second because there are no monsters there?

Did you not play TSW? No levels bro. Pure item progression and grinding skill points. And it felt exactly like playing any other MMO. Do everything in an area, move to the next, never go back. I'm not sure why you feel it is so important to recycle. I don't feel some pressing need to go see Durotar again. And if I did, I can always make a new character.

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Yeah, I played TSW. It's a good game, but it doesn't go far enough. And this isn't about forcing you to replay a zone, it's about giving players options. Right now, most mmo endgames are more limiting than the leveling experience. It should be the other way around. As a player gets more powerful they should have more places open up to them.

Being funneled into a lobby is just boring.

Convo_sl said:

Lobby route mean just being ported to group areas? I don't play GW2

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GW2 fractals is pretty much a lobby in the major city. Though the dungeons are the same thing since it takes like 2 seconds to get there.

Abefroman_sl said:

The content and loot is there in GW2 in the lower zones. It's just easier to stay in one spot and get it. You can hate it all you want, but the vast majority of gamers like it this way. It's those gamers that pay the bills.

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GW2 forces everyone to play FoTM to advance their toon. They are introducing other paths, but that isn't implemented yet. And your claim about what players want is just another WoW fanboi ploy. If you like WoW clones then that's cool. There is room for games other than WoW clones though.

You keep saying lobby and I think you are talking about Starcraft 2. I played WOW and I never once felt that that way because I did not exit the game to queue up LFG. I was no forced to sit there waiting for other players to join. No, I just queued LFG AND THEN WENT OUT IN THE WORLD AND DID WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT. In fact, these "lobbies" as you keep calling them, were LESS restrictive than the old way of forming groups where you literally sit at the zoneline spamming shout and sending tells. THAT is your goddamn lobby.

Every time you say "lobby" I want to reach through the monitor and choke the life out of you. LFD is thesolutionto a lobby, not the fucking cause of it.

Grim1_sl said:

GW2 forces everyone to play FoTM to advance their toon. They are introducing other paths, but that isn't implemented yet. And your claim about what players want is just another WoW fanboi ploy. If you like WoW clones then that's cool. There is room for games other than WoW clones though.

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Lol WoW fanboi ploy. Compose yourself. Nobody is saying they don't want something different. What people are saying is good luck getting funding for a game that appeals to the minority with little QOL features. Know any people that willingly make less money?

Kreugen_sl said:

You keep saying lobby and I think you are talking about Starcraft 2. I played WOW and I never once felt that that way because I did not exit the game to queue up LFG. I was no forced to sit there waiting for other players to join. No, I just queued LFG AND THEN WENT OUT IN THE WORLD AND DO WHATEVER THE FUCK I WANT. In fact, these "lobbies" as you keep calling them, were LESS restrictive than the old way of forming groups where you literally sit at the zoneline spamming shout and sending tells.

Every time you say "lobby" I want to reach through the monitor and choke the life out of you. LFD is thesolutionto a lobby, not the fucking cause of it.

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I'm not against decent LFG tools, WoW did right with that. Games that force players to play the same instanced dungeons over and over while ignoring the rest of the world, and other paths to advance characters is the issue. Lobby is just a convenient term for the limiting style of play that endless instanced dungeons have become.

Abefroman_sl said:

Lol WoW fanboi ploy. Compose yourself. Nobody is saying they don't want something different. What people are saying is good luck getting funding for a game that appeals to the minority with little QOL features. Know any people that willingly make less money?

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Well, your argument is the same as saying that only WoW's style of gaming will sell and don't bother building anything else.

Grim1_sl said:

I'm not against decent LFG tools, WoW did right with that. Games that force players to play the same instanced dungeons over and over while ignoring the rest of the world, and other paths to advance characters is the issue. Lobby is just a convenient term for the limiting style of play that endless instanced dungeons have become.

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You'd love Rift then. You have your dungeon grinding, but you also have your massive reputation grind fuckfests that send you out in the world to repeat the same shit over and over for an eternity.

You'd also be quite enamored with Mists of Pandaria, where there a bunch of factions that have you going all around the world repeating sets of daily quests 50 times each.

And of course, crafting in most games, that sends you around to places to mine ore or pick flowers.

Personally, I don't give a shit about any of that. Once I've done it all once, I've done it. Repetition is just "something to do until the new shit comes out"

Rift did a lot of things right and it is one of the better games. Been meaning to go back and play it some more.

Personally, don't like instancing or that particular style of raiding (youtube heroes), it works for them though. Think the rep stuff came after I quit. The rest of the game is cool.

Grim1_sl said:

Well, your argument is the same as saying that only WoW's style of gaming will sell and don't bother building anything else.

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I have no problem with different types of gameplay. I wish there was more diversity. What I am trying to explain is that if you make a game like EQ now with the grinding, death penalty, no instancing, no LFD etc. It will fail. That is why nobody is willing to fund one.

The future as I see it is player created content sold in a steam like store. Gabe Newell and Jeremy Gaffney both talk about this. This eliminates your content problem, but your QOL features still need to be there to attract a larger playerbase.

That is your opinion. And I'm not asking for a EQ classic clone. Although, I would play that game and I think it would be successful.

What I would rather see is a total reboot of EQ that takes the best of EQ1 (a little from EQ2) and current mmos, while bringing something new to the table. The main things I hate are instancing and funneled, highly repetitive endgames. What I like is a sense of danger (that doesn't have to mean CR's). The rest I am open to, surprise me.

No instances? Yeah, not playing that game. I don't know what the fuck people think was so great about having a bunch of fucking idiots getting in your way all the time.

You know what would be awesome? If amusement parks had even longer lines. Because an amusement park with no lines at all would just be awful.

Christ this thread is a cesspit. Never again.

There are ways to spread people out that don't require instances. But some competition is fine. I prefer that over over some idiot hoop jumping contest memorized by watching a youtube video.

Which, is the point isn't it? There is room for both types of games in the marketplace. You can play yours and I'll play mine and we both are happy.

Luckily EQ3 will not be anything like that because the last game to try it was a colossal fucking flop.

Good thing you prefer simplistic encounters with few abilities or scripting though, because that's what you get in open dungeons.

Vanguard isn't what I'm looking for, if that's what you are referring too. It's not a reboot, and more of a EQ2 clone.

And according to Smed, EQ3 is the next coming of Jesus.... don't you believe him?

Kreugen_sl said:

Luckily EQ3 will not be anything like that because the last game to try it was a colossal fucking flop.

Good thing you prefer simplistic encounters with few abilities or scripting though, because that's what you get in open dungeons.

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are you referring to vanguard or darkfall? vanguard flopped because it was buggy as shit and was released during wow's peak. darkfall was an amateur hackjob. neither was handled properly.

and the amount of scripting and choreography involved in a raid depends on the number of people, not on instancing.