EQ Never

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
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So how do you build a game where it's all about the journey? What kind of content are you creating that will keep people occupied? I assume that characters won't change as much since you're not leveling as fast and your not getting gear upgrades as fast. So what are you doing that keeps people playing your game for 5-10 hours in between dings and gear upgrades?
Oh that's very easy but it requires a lot of explanation. What you're asking is a game-design document.

Problem with current games is they made every gamer and designer suffer from tunnel-vision. The whole table needs to be wiped so we start from scratch. Heck, take out the table too. The problem with MMORPG game design is that they don't start from nothing, they borrow a lot from previous games. Previous games which really are not compatible with the "journey" idea... it just doesn't work.
 

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
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However, my personal ideal would be a game with two hotbars: one devoted to combat abilities, and one for non-combat utility
You don't need a hotbar of non-combat utility. There is strictly no reason not to have access to all utilities that aren't combat-related. Unless you meant the TSW idea of a passive loadout, which is fine.
 

Patata_sl

shitlord
11
0
You don't need a hotbar of non-combat utility. There is strictly no reason not to have access to all utilities that aren't combat-related. Unless you meant the TSW idea of a passive loadout, which is fine.
What is a non-combat utility? A buff? if so, you may need to use buffs during a fight (for example enchanter runes).
I'd give the player the chance to put in the hotbar whatever they want from their abilities/spells.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
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Non-combat utility would be anything not directly or indirectly related to fighting; So buffs would definitely be combat utility. Lockpicking, persuasion/intimidation, trade skills, movement type abilities, and detect/disarm traps would all be non-combat utility.

Oh that's very easy but it requires a lot of explanation. What you're asking is a game-design document.

Problem with current games is they made every gamer and designer suffer from tunnel-vision. The whole table needs to be wiped so we start from scratch. Heck, take out the table too. The problem with MMORPG game design is that they don't start from nothing, they borrow a lot from previous games. Previous games which really are not compatible with the "journey" idea... it just doesn't work.
Apparently Final Fantasy XIV was developed in a bit of a vacuum, and turned into a steaming pile by all accounts. So throwing everything out doesn't always net you a fresh start.

However, I agree that the focus of new MMO's needs to be drastically different. There needs to be a real sense of purpose beyond looting, killing, attacking, destroying... those are all just avenues to reach a goal and not suitable goals themselves. Players should feel like they are building something in the process, a town, a kingdom, an empire, a company, a mercenary squad, a group of assassins, a trading house... something that all of their efforts funnel into, and this something should essentially wither and die if they were to cease those efforts. It needs to be vulnerable to decay if not outright attack.

The game should take advantage of people, it should use them without them realizing it at first. You might just be in it for yourself, but before you know it, you are part of a group of people that made similar choices and you are all relying on one another to get things done... This grouping of the player base needs to happen at the earliest stages of the game, and any connections that might be formed in this way should be almost effortless to preserve thanks to in game systems. Relying entirely on the players to take the initiative to want to come together and make lasting connections is a weak way to build community. It wasn't always like that, but now it is.

Anyways, those are two of my fundamental changes I would like to see. Cumulative tasks and goals; and natural almost subliminal community building tools based around those goals.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Hell, just changing some simple things in mmos would make them drastically different then the drivel we have now.

Vary leash ranges and mob speeds... bingo you have a totally different game, and have reintroduced a little bit of danger. The fact that in every mmo, all mobs have the same leash distance and speed is pathetic.

It doesn't take much to change what we already have. Since every mmo has so many basic mechanics that are exactly the same in every game.
 

Ukerric

Bearded Ape
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Lockpicking, persuasion/intimidation, trade skills, movement type abilities, and detect/disarm traps would all be non-combat utility.
And thus, there's no real need to limit people from using them. The topic is hotbar: you need a hotbar because... you need to be able to quickly use these skills, meaning they're for combat. Anything that occurs out of combat does not belong in a hotbar. You can have a section of your UI devoted to these actions, sure, but 1) there's no need to be a "swappable" hotbar for that, and 2) there's no need to limit the number of these people may use.

Note that lockpicking and trap disarm would be combat actions: you use these to prevent damage to your group and pull mobs. That's definitively combat related, and a choice: "do I use trap disarms or situational skill B?". And I would definitively stay away from these, because in practice they're either useless or mandatory.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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276
I don't get the hype for EQN since it's a F2P console first MMO afaik.
I'm not sure if it will be released for consoles at all, havent heard anything towards that end. But it is going to use the new in-house developed engine SOE made for Planetside 2, that engine is obviously developed for PC first. You probably heard so rumor-made-fact from some gaming news site.
 

mkopec

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The way blizzard has been taking WoW lately there is little faith left. I still have hope, but well see. Oh and D3 was no spectacular game either.
 

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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Titan is probably going to be a mix of facebook with a $AH for different hair styles you can design yourself anyway. Blizzard hasnt been putting the game quality before the quarterly revenue report for a long time. Not that anyone else really does, its a business after all. Still old Blizzard, old Bioware etc seemed to care more about their product then what we have now.
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Titan is probably going to be a mix of facebook with a $AH for different hair styles you can design yourself anyway. Blizzard hasnt been putting the game quality before the quarterly revenue report for a long time. Not that anyone else really does, its a business after all. Still old Blizzard, old Bioware etc seemed to care more about their product then what we have now.
And both were bought by huge corporations.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
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It's the ebb and flow of the market. Kotick is a natural process, established companies get wealthy, get greedy--but in doing so they train a bunch of young, idealistic guys, who go out and hopefully start good studios. They produce some great games and start the cycle again. We're in the tail end of that last "wave" of great studios. Eventually though, Kotick will bleed every drop of new revenue he can from these companies and then he will turn on the workers--cutting people, cutting benefits ect. When he pushes too much, a bunch of guys will leave and hopefully we will have a new great studio. Just takes time, but it will happen--if there is ONE absolute in the business world it's that people like Kotick are insatiably, eventually they even devour themselves.
 

Dr Neir

Trakanon Raider
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Combat disco, hop, jump and general grind I can get from most any MMO now, only difference is flavor in looks and grind.

I miss the factions, questing from odd hidden storylines (Necro skull quest), EC tunnel, SWG player shops and mining (harvesting). There are a ton of games that just throws you in a world with rails and grind outs lvls. I want to open a shop/tavern near a dungeon/town for other players to visit. Put up work orders for things I need and other players to do/get or hire adventurers to do the work order if no one accepts it (similar to SWTOR companions), in a sense become a quest npc of sorts.
I would like to take the auction house/bazaar thing and do something with it instead of being just a magic auto delivery system players use with no meaning. One thing I hate with all current MMO is crafting sucks! EQ2 tried to mini game it (Grind and everyone making the same grind items as you), EVE has too many bots (Better to just buy the item than build it), SWG had the best with idea with adjusted materials (Materials that have adjusted or random values, No everyone could make the same item and those that look for the best stuff had the market.).

I look at MMOs today like I do Activision, rebooting a game that was a strategy? Turn it into a first person shooter! It feels like no one wants to code anymore and just plug in old ideas and reuse code from the last big release but leave out what they dont understand! Love the new big corp controlled machine (
rolleyes.png
), cant we break these guys up like Ma Bell telephone like back in the day? At this point I am just waiting for them to crush under their own weight. I want old Sierra, Bullfrog, etc ideas back! Something new, crafting mean something and not an after-thought and coded by the CEO's limo-driver's daughter!
 

mkopec

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You can laugh all you want Itzy, but deep down inside you are crying just like the rest of us because you know its true.
 

Dr Neir

Trakanon Raider
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Blizzard is done from a real gamer's perspective. They're lumped in with EA now. No need to discuss them.
I can see that, dump what players hated about EQ and you could get WOW. Wow is just too much on rails for me and the crafting too simple. Tinkering or rather engineering, is a joke in WoW, not sure why the added it if they never really wanted to do it. Sometimes simple and easy isn't good.

Think the SWTOR thing with sending out your companions is a great idea, just wish they would expand on that more and other games do something more with it. STO has something similar with the Duty officer system also. I would like to see someone's NPC walking around doing it's missions or mining. would be nice to show up at a spot that needs more players to complete and group up with someone else's NPC to finish.