EQ Never
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Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
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Yeah, I'm really OCD about it too so I spend way more time than I want organizing bags etc. That said, unlimited storage would come with its own nightmares.
Most of the people in this thread are making arguments for cash shops that only have things they would never want or buy. Here's the thing though if the cash shop exists and is the main income source and you aren't buying from it you aren't a real player. You are the mindless turd content that the real players farm for their "player dynamic" content. You don't get a free ride on everyone else's Wallet so there has to be something annoying enough for you to need in the cash shop.
Byr
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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its not the motivatio nof creating cashshop items that matters, its the motivation behind buying them. Do mmo players buy cash shop items in order to support a game they enjoy or do they buy it to have an advantage? sadly without the numbers behind the cashshops, we dont really get a window to look into for it.
but yet there are games out there with nothing but cosmetics in the cashshops and they do very well. Hell, Path of Exile even has people donating $10,000 at a time. All in all, it puts a hole in your conclusion.
My whole point was can an MMORPG fund itself only on vanity type cosmetic items if it's free to play? I have no idea. Would be great if it could since I would never have to spend any money.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Considering the amount of money the fashion industry generates I'm surprised that there isn't a mmo that doesn't take more advantage of it. Then again most gaming devs and gamers (yep me too) are fashionless geeks so I suppose it makes sense.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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"Annoying to need in the cash shop" = bad shop design.
"Tempting to use the cash shop" = good shop design.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Heh, we laugh but think how much your girlfriend (or wife) spends on shoes alone.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Yes... one thing i absolutely hate in RPGs is dealing with inventory... Most things that are abstracted annoy me and I feel takes away the immersion and reality but bags ? GO Unlimited and let me search the thing like my hard drive... Convenience based on "interface" or how we interact with the game to me is not immersion blocking at all...
Louis
Trakanon Raider
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No, not at all. DotA's cash shop offers absolutely nothing that you need, but if I had to guess they are making a killing none the less for a game that hasn't even been officially released.
Mughal
Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Much better question. The answer is probably 'no' if you are talking about a mainstream MMO. Previously people talked about microtransactions from TF2 (few models, few maps) and Path of Exile (few classes, small world). You can't have a big ass world with PvE PvP WTF BBQ etc and expect to only have vanity items.
Jait
Molten Core Raider
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Considering hosting a website for the purpose of an EQN guild. Probably too soon to do so, but I may get serious about this game.
I was a mage with summoned bags in EQ. Those were the devil. Lost my jboots in those once. I did petition that, but got back a message from a gm that it was my fault, they would not get them back (which was the right thing to do, it was my mistake). Lost a godly amount of, forgot the name, the bricks you got in that ice dungeon with the spiders. Velketor? They were heavy and encumbered you without the bags that removed weight. I forgot to empty those so many times... EDIT: For those that did not play EQ, summoned bags would vanish with all items inside them once you logged off for more than 15 minutes. /end edit
The reason bags are used in most games is because they are an easy implementation of a feeling of item based progression that causes little to no change on the dynamics of the game. I like that there are many slots in my character sheet to upgrade. However, each one that can fit an item with stats will change the power of the player, meaning you need to scale the world after it. This is the reason (I think, without being a developer), that games avoid having 10 ring slots even though we could easily fit it with 10 fingers. In fact, it is unrealistic to only have 2 slots. If jewelry gave us stat boosts in real life, we would all look like rappers. But adding 8 more slots in a game would create a player with far more power, so the game would have to be balanced around that. Much easier to limit it to two. Increasing the amount you can carry with new and more bags will give you no power, but still adds an element of progression.
I doubt bag progression, for lack of a better term, is going away any time soon. But, I am not sure I mind that aspect. Inventory management is such a large part of RPGs, it would feel odd to play one without it. Weight restrictions is one of the first things I remove in games like The Witcher and Skyrim, but for a game like EQ, the removal of that would change entire classes.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Since we're on the subject.
I'm not convinced FTP is a long-term solution to anything. I think its working okay now, but ultimately you have to mudflate items in the cash shops and make the game PTW which leads to players leaving.
I know Smed & co. saw population and cash spikes when they converted to FTP I'd like to know how that's going now.
Agraza
Registered Hutt
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They vastly under-utilize the fashion aspect of these games. 80% of their art team should be on worn equipment/illusions/mounts full-time. 10 years ago I beta'd a korean MMO, and the amount of gear with weird appearance was 20-30x what it is in even current gen western MMOs. You also had like 4 different types of mounts and dozens of appearances per type. At least we're doing mounts right these days in some games. In said korean game you could look like a pirate, a ninja, a cowboy, a robot, etc. and people did. A lot. I saw an entire group of pirates once, that I assume were friends since I can't read korean. You can tweak that shit so it fits the game and less like a 50s style cartoon parody. EQ is limited by an ancient engine, but tossing out random shit like mummy masks and top hats is half-ass.
One of the reasons FTP is so big, and will inevitably remain so, is because there is a lot of competition, and the $50 to buy and/or $15/month is a significant barrier to entry. You want them in your game, invested in their character, and THEN show them shit they might spend money on. It's a trap. If you hang the money signs outside the trap it's easy for the consumer to keep walking since the competition doesn't. The competition just has a bigPLAY FOR FREE!button.
One of the reasons FTP is so big, and will inevitably remain so, is because there is a lot of competition, and the $50 to buy and/or $15/month is a significant barrier to entry. You want them in your game, invested in their character, and THEN show them shit they might spend money on. It's a trap. If you hang the money signs outside the trap it's easy for the consumer to keep walking since the competition doesn't. The competition just has a bigPLAY FOR FREE!button.
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Expected response. This would mean, if the idea isn't P2W, that simply getting to max skill/max level/max whatever isn't the doorway into the endgame. It's something that happens as you go, so that a cash shop could speed that up without directly impacting progression vs. those who don't use the cash shop. Still worthwhile; still useful. Just not a direct advantage. More of a... convenience. Which directly leads me to my next leap in logic, that if the game isn't pay to win, that the endgame is far more cooperative than it is competitive. Ie, spawns are not tied to whomever gets their first, otherwise anything that legit lets you get to them faster via cash shop is directly pay to win.
Extrapolating further from this, that means that either instancing is fairly apparent at the endgame, or people killing things doesn't actively detract from others enjoyment of the game, like EQ did. Otherwise, again, it is clearly a pay to win situation. In fact, one could further speculate that methods that accelerate progression might actually accelerate progression for people who are not on the bleeding edge, as it would further push content availability for everyone up. Since that would definitely not be pay to win.
My slippery slope goes both directions.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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People will pay for entertainment. Make the game free to check out and level to 20 or 30 and leave it at that. If it's good, and you spend a little bit on marketing people will pay. WoW didn't make its billions being a FTP game.
FTP is what's killing MMOs.