EQ Never
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Yes but none of us know just how many people that really represents. Maybe the 20 people on here are the only 20 people in the entire world who would care about an EQ remake. But maybe it represents a million people. None of us know that, and we don't even have anything to compare it against because every other MMO since 2004 has been a WoW clone. I also personally don't even really want an EQ remake. I'd play it if that's what they made, but I would much prefer something new.
My only concern is that something new is too risky and I'm not sure SOE are talented enough to pull it off. So for that reason I think the original EQ is valuable because you can copy large parts of it and still make a new-ish game, and yet its a safer bet.
Yeah well again, we don't know that for sure either way. And it's SOE, not Sony. And SoE have had a shitty 10 years and are a games company without any big selling games. That's not good. So they might not exactly be indie, but they aren't Bethesda either. Maybe Planetside will signal a turn around for them but prior to that, it's just be shambles after shambles and EQ is their one hit wonder.
And again, this neckbeard MMO you call it, it might be niche but you might be surprised at just how big that niche is.
If they had any sense they would have people reading sites like this constantly, just to keep their finger on the pulse of what people like and what people start to hate. Even just the fact that Smed talks about scrapping a WoW clone shows that he might be hearing some of things us (or people like us) are saying.
It could just be smoke and mirrors but as I said like 5 months ago on FOH, they can't afford to take any chances. If they go through all the hooplah of releasing an EQ3 and it ends up being just-another-WoW-clone, and bombs, it could seriously kill SOE for good.
Tearofsoul
Ancient MMO noob
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With how popular Dark/Demon Souls is, I believe that there are plenty of younger people who would embrace the higher risk vs. reward factor of a "classic EQ" experience. I'm not saying it should be EQ with shiner graphics, but I think there's still room for that model.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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No, SoE has had some success recently with Planetside and their version of F2P in their older games (as horrible as it is) must be profitable. So SoE doesn't have everything riding on this.
And didn't they get turned down for the massive super multil gazillion dollar budget mmo? But instead were forced to go with a smaller budget? If so then again, the pressure of killing off SoE with a super failure like SWTOR isn't there.
But a failure could kill off the EQ franchise and heads would probably roll. So that pressure exists as well as the pressure of not wanting to be associated with failure. Everyone wants to be part of something that succeeds.
Bingo. And not just Demon/Dark Souls but also games like DayZ. There is a whole new generation of gamers that have never even seen a hardcore game before. They come across something like DayZ which is actually brutal rather than 100% accommodating, and it blows their minds. And that's just a thrown together alpha of a mod on a rickety old engine in a game zone from 2009. Imagine if someone made a modern polished game that had the same kind of gameplay but without the clunkiness.
No, SoE are screwed if this isn't a success, mark my words. And I doubt Planetside 2's success is quite as it's being made out. It's FreeToPlay for one thing, so even if a million people gave it a shot, they maybe made a grand total of $0 from all of them.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Lol, and just when I was starting to listen to you, you had to go and ruin it with hyberbolic drivel such as this. If what you said were true then SoE would have been shut down a long time ago. Use some common sense.
Ehh you are the one who said they have nothing riding on this, what proof do you have of that? And they only haven't been shut down because EQ was a success and probably because Sony has bailed them out a few times. But they wont do that forever. Use some common sense.
I'd make the argument that it's Eve. Which is, like, an entire galaxy? That'll be tough to out do. :|
Unless they come up with something super crafty and revolutionizing, I think it'll be very difficult to make a Eve-styled fantasy without the freedom of what space brings to the table. Namely a vastness that can be majority empty. A fantasy game taking place on "earth" needs terrain, and trees and bushes and the occasional house or ruins to fill in the landscape.
Unless they mean truly sandbox, like a Minecraft, where the very world itself can be changed, piece by piece, by players.
How am I arguing for a WOW clone? I don't want harsh death penalties. I fine with some death penalties, but nothing that sets me back hours and induces frustration. I'm ok with some xp loss, but not gear loss (though I can accept gear loss if gear is more easily gotten and not super rare). I'm arguing for a game that doesn't involve static mob spawns and the main gameplay is scripted boss fights and pulling groups of mobs that just stand there. I want a game that takes GW2's system farther. I want a game that doesn't involve quest to quest level game play. Hell I barely want levels. I want an open world with very little instancing. I want a game that blends classes so it's not a hard trinity but I don't want a class structure that is ambiguous like WOW is now nor wide open like GW2. I'd settle for VG's classes (best class structure of all the traditional trinity system), but there is probably room for improvement.
TSW, Path of Exile, Rift before Rift fucked it up, FFXI are all system I would enjoy playing.
I want a combat system that is engaging but not full of 20 different abilities like GW2 or TSW. But I don't want EQ where tanks just kicked every 10 seconds. I want a more active combat system like TERA or a hybrid likw GW2 instead of WOW's stand in one place and punch in a rotation or EQ's pull to corner and facetank.
These are just tetrameters I'm tossing out there for a PVE game. If you want to know what I'd like you can go read the novel I wrote in the "What now?" thread about the ideal PVP game I'd want which is actually full loot. (Here's the link:http://www.rerolled.org/showthread.p...5645#post45645)
Anyway, I dislike WOW very much. I haven't played the game for more than a few hours at a time since WOTLK and I don't really ever plan to again. The game is soulless and homogenized.
So please stop with the hyperbole. Only WOW clones won't be made, in fact I'm pretty sure, no more big WOW clones will ever get made again unless FFXIV does it with their remake. What I am saying is a game that comprises of very simple combat, very simple dungeon design and a very punishing design won't make it; especially when it's designed to force players to manually find others just to play the game. I'm ok with game that is heavy on group content, and less solo friendly, but you have to put systems in place that get people together. You can not have a game in this day in age if the only way to get something done is to either yell into the ether for a group for 20 minutes or search who for the same amount of time. Many games have made great strides to public grouping aspects and it started with WAR and has continued with Rift and GW2. You can take what they've done and improve it.
GW2 did some fantastic things with dynamically scaling content but they failed on the higher end scale of things (too many people made it a cake walk) and most encounters were too easy in the first place. You need to build on that.
Creating a world of danger is good. Creating a game where lag or simple mistake sets you back hours or days is not good. I would love to have a game where you have to travel through dangerous areas and if you die, you have to start over, no convenient graveyards. I can settle for no quick travel (though I love GW2's system) but you need to support the game for it. I dislike how WOW has created a game where the game world is safe, clean, boring. I would love to create a game that you feel like you're in. That means simple UI, not very far zoom-out on your character and maybe no minimap (I prefer a minimap, but you can talk me into not having one).
There are a lot of things you can take from EQ and improve on them with modern technology. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from WOW. I wouldn't make a game that aims to get 3-6 Million US/EU players. That would be boring and almost impossible. I however wouldn't shoot to fill a small niche of players that want something that is 15 years old.
Moderation my friends. Moderation and modernization.
EQN will sell zero boxes, because I don't believe there will be boxes to sell. I'm willing to bet it will be a free client download.
I said it 'could' kill them, it was you who made the claim that it wont (based on absolutely nothing). And business or poker game, it doesn't matter either way, when you have no money left you are bust.
Exactly.
My major point is that major game studios will not be shooting for "aggressive ruled" (I like that term) MMORPGs because they are such huge projects. Until you can take the development time of an MMORPG from 5 years to 2, you're not going to be getting and major shifts in game theory from them. Your more aggressively ruled MMOs, if there will be any, will come from smaller, or new studios. My minor point is that MMORPGs are such complex beasts that you will not likely get a quality product from a smaller studio if their scope of design is similar to a AAA MMO unless that studio is the next Blizzard or Bioware or Square but just in indie form, you're going to get stuff like Darkfall. The only other option that would most likely occur is a studio creates an MMORPG like Mincraft, where server structure and hosting is up to groups instead of having a central server that includes a cashshop, subscription and customer support.
Grim's opinion is that they will have tools sooner than later that allows people to create MMORPGs faster and easier. Hopefully that's true because that would be great, but I happen to disagree with him on that one.
Difficulty factor yes. I think there is definitely a market for very challenging games and the market is lacking quality titles. However the risk factor is essentially having to do hard parts over and over until you get it done. You lose time attempting to complete something. At any point you can usually log off and chill and come back later. XP loss or Gear loss forces you to go do something else for a while so you can get back to doing what you want to do. Find a happy medium between zerging something to death and getting so frustrated that you quit the game because now you have to grind for 4 hours to get your xp back or hurricane sandy hits your house and you lose power for 2 weeks and you lose all your gear! Hopefully that happy medium is not having to rely on people to save your day with resses or getting your corpse back. That's boring gameplay imo. I like forcing/building community in more positive ways or in response to positive situations/developments.
You are so full of shit. If anything it's the WoW clone noob games that you seem to like, which are the bigger and more expensive projects. Because they have to be super slick, and have at least several super slick instances full of voice overs and cut scenes and all that shit, and then you have to have some token raid content, and you have to have some PVP or at least some battlegrounds, and it all has to have super high production values, and all has to be really easy and fast to blast through as well - because that's just what those retard types of gamers demand. That's why games like Rift were so expensive and yet so lacking in content at release.
A sandbox style game is the opposite of that. You build the same world, but then just fill it with mobs and let the players loose. They don't need 2000+ quests because they are happy to just grind mobs for XP and loot, they don't need PVP and battlegrounds because they are happy just doing PVE, they don't need finely tuned instances because they are happy to just pick a room in a dungeon and farm it, and they don't need cutscenes or hollywood voice actors because they are more interested in a blank canvas to roleplay with.
SOE are in a perfect position to deliver something like that, because they can make something hardcore yet they are big enough to make it slick and accessible, unlike the gorgon style kickstarter projects that can barely afford to make animations.
A sandbox style game is the opposite of that. You build the same world, but then just fill it with mobs and let the players loose. They don't need 2000+ quests because they are happy to just grind mobs for XP and loot, they don't need PVP and battlegrounds because they are happy just doing PVE, they don't need finely tuned instances because they are happy to just pick a room in a dungeon and farm it, and they don't need cutscenes or hollywood voice actors because they are more interested in a blank canvas to roleplay with.
SOE are in a perfect position to deliver something like that, because they can make something hardcore yet they are big enough to make it slick and accessible, unlike the gorgon style kickstarter projects that can barely afford to make animations.
There's absolutely no reason why current MMO companies should take five years for a new project. A company like SOE already has the tools, databases, QA, and customer service setup.
How long did the original DAOC take? That was from Mythic, a very small company and they did quite well with that.
Most people equate that to the opposite of a theme park one. My opinion is a sandbox MMO would be a truly open world with independent events and no required linear leveling routes, locked down areas, or 'dead' zones. To simplify somewhat: Oblivion and Skyrim are 'sandbox' games to me. Diablo is a theme park game.Mick_sl said: